Thursday, August 20, 2009

New middle school for Greenville?

[Bumped back to the top due to intense interest and discussion]

The Greenville School Board voted 5-0 tonight to apply for funds from the Ohio School Facilities Commission for the construction of a middle school, grades 5-8, which would be built on the school's bare ground on Ohio Street.

Greenvile has qualified for special funds through an exceptional needs exemption, made possible in part by the recent structural difficulties at the junior high.

Under the current proposal, the state would supply approximately 40% of the funds necessary for the construction, with the community picking up the remaining 60%. The total construction cost is projected at $21.86 million.

The Board proposes to raise funds by putting a bond issue on the ballot in February 2010. The bond would be 3.72 mils, more or less, which would be less than the millage of the recent emergency levy.

The Board has further hired the firm of Garmann-Miller of Minster, Ohio, as the architect, and preliminary drawings are expected as early as September. Garmann-Miller has previously worked on new school construction projects for Parkway, Wapakoneta, and Elida, among others.

The construction of the middle school would likely take South Elementary and the Junior High out of commission for the school district. The current vision is to build the middle school - and then if the community will exists later, an elementary building (K-4) could also be built on the Ohio Street property. There is no current discussion to move the high school, but rather a remodel of the high school and tech building much further down the line.

54 comments:

  1. wow 21.86 million dollars and the plans havn't even been drawn up yet, anybody want to take bets that the cost will go up after the plans are drawn up. Lets try to force more taxes on the community with the economy the way it is and soo many people out of work. Then if they get it passed and built, then they find out that they need more money to operate the new school, since the operating cost will be quite a bit more then they are now, ask any school around that has a new school, see how many has went back to voters for higher operating expenses.

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  2. The millage in the article includes a state-mandated 0.5 mils for maintenance, so it's already included. You know - the last time we did this, a certain group made the school project a cause celebre, loudly opposing it, engaging in litigation, and making the whole thing a big joke for the community. I think the argument can be made that if we got that school then, we might not have significant economic problems in Greenville right now.

    My point here is not to argue, but to urge caution. I agree with the entire community on the co2 issue, but some people took the matter too far and started demonizing The Andersons.

    Please, let's the school proceed with their plan, and they will have an opportunity to sell the project to the public. In one respect, they have moderated their plans from before by just proposing a middle school and an incremental approach. Unlike the co2 issues, we the people get the final say on a bond issue.

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  3. I know times are hard but we (the community) will have to find a way to support our children. I agree that SOME ONE will clearly need to evaluate the budget and definitely insure that those who did the calculations for the the switching of the buildings is not in charge, obviously there were many flaws in that plan!

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  4. Anonymous,
    With the state of the enconomy with what it is, our we the general public a magician and just pull money out of a hat .It just seems that are leaders wether it is school board members or government leaders , they are FIRM belivers in BARACK OBAMA ECONOMICS.

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  5. If I am seeing this properly, a February 2010 vote would once again mean a special election. The only reason the last levy passed is the fact that it was held as a special election. While it may be "sneaky," at least they know what needs to be done to have a shot at passing something. If people are grossly opposed, hopefully they get up and go vote this time around instead of "just letting someone else do it."

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  6. How long will it take for the local media's premier writer (and family) to destroy THIS idea? More costly lawsuits ?----last time they cost the school district some $30,000. While the old middle school building crumbles, throw in the attacks on industry in Greenville--- who would want to bring new businesses to this town?

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  7. It's do or die on this one. Of course, no one wants more taxes--but, if you want to have a job at all in this town, we have to do something.

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  8. Yes! Yes! Yes! It's high time this community gets on the bandwagon and realizes how critical the school system is to progress in any community! I'm thrilled that we have the opportunity to begin the process. Instead of berating our school leaders, let's help them get it done!!

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  9. Yes! Yes! Yes! It's high time we get on the bandwagon and realize that the school system is key to progress in any community!! Let's stop berating our school leaders and help them get the job done.

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  10. Show me a successful school system, and I'll show you a community that has jobs, pride, good morale and most of all, a future.

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  11. Speaking as a parent of a child in Greenville Schools, I welcome the new building. How long has it been since people of this community have been inside one of these buildings? I think they do a decent job of maintaning the buildings, but they are in really bad shape. The Jr. High building is literally falling down! I have to agree with the second post, had we gotten a new shool a few years ago, would our economy be as bad as it is now? It's hard to say.

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  12. I can't tell you how thrilled I am to read this news. The idea is sound. The high school is in good shape and in a good location. The junior high and elementary schools, however, are in very sad shape. The future viability of our beloved community is dependent upon excellent schools. If our community can rally around an issue as critical as the CO2 sequestration, just think what can be done when a matter as critical as the education of our kids is before us. We can do this. We must do this.

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  13. They need the new building pretty badly, no one is crazy about more taxes but consider that you are buying a building for 60% of the "list price".
    At some point you are going to be required to build, the existing buildings are not in great shape, if the State quits providing funding then you are going to pay 100% of the costs.

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  14. Wow I hate to burst your bubble… building a new school, raising Property Taxes isn’t going to bring business to Greenville. We have bigger problems when it comes to bringing business to Greenville.

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  15. 10:31 a.m. You dont think businesses look at school systems when they are looking to locate to a new town? Wow is right. They are looking at their future workforce coming out of those school systems. They are looking to see if their workforce support their community. And do explain what the "bigger" problems are when it comes to bringing business to greenville?

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  16. Education should be first and foremost, as that leads to solutions to other problems... I comes down to the chicken and the egg... Good jobs bring money for a new school, yet a new school helps bring good jobs... If I were relocating my business I would defiantly look at the schools, as I wouldn't want to have the children of my employees in a crummy district...

    My making the investment now when times are tough, we would be creating jobs for those who are out of a job currently. Business is slow, therefore construction firms will be willing to bid with very low margins in order get the job, saving us all money compared.

    If the long term education of Darke County children hinges on me giving up some extras, then it is probably worth it, because I dont want the Greenville to be a ghost town when all the young people move away, and have their families else where...

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  17. Has every one forgotten that the board just paid brumbaugh const 1 million dollars less than 2 years ago on the jr. high.Why didnt they propose this then instead of spending money on something that is going to be tore down.Just another waste of tax payers money that could of been spent on this new shcool.

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  18. I think it is time for Greenville to open there eyes. I have never lived in a community like Greenville where the majority seems to be so closed minded. Everytime Greenville is faced with an issue it seems like the majority shreds it apart to make it negative. Greenville is no longer growing and is becoming more and more of a low income city. Low income cities cannot survive and before you know it Greenville will be nothing. I feel the education creates a great base to a growing city. Create good schools and I think that would help Greenville out tremendously to attract not only business but more middle class to high class families. Greenville needs to concentrate on how to become a better city and quit your bit*****.

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  19. I know quite a bit of people who are from Troy or have moved to Troy. You ask them what they like about there community and one thing that is always mentioned is there schools. I just spoke to a Dr. the other day and he is new to the area. I asked him where he lived and he said Troy. He stated that his decision to move to Troy was soley based on there schools system. He checked into Greenville and was amazed how old our schools were. WAKE UP GREENVILLE.

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  20. Yes, there is a great and serious need for updated buildings. Yes, it's critical for attracting business to the area.
    My question: how in the world did the OFSC come up with Greenville residents paying 60%? (A good deal, vs. paying 100%) Other county schools are paying a much smaller percentage for their new schools. How is that?

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  21. Judging from the spelling mistakes, Greenville citizens badly need a better education! "there" instead of "their"; "tore" instead of "torn", however, the comments are extremely to the point.

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  22. Only 1 person on here has briefly addressed the real issue of building a new school, what is the true cost?? Has anyone looked at the cost of building new (which includes state funding) vs. renovation along with operation cost of each? Building a new school for the sake of “free State funding “ may cost more money in the long run. Does anyone know where does the State get their money? Ohio tax payers and businesses. I have owned and operated a business in Greenville for 25+ years and know of the ever growing tax burden of operating a business in Ohio. NCR didn’t move away from the Dayton area just because of the poor school system, it was mainly because of the tax savings they received from Georgia. (I believe that is the “bigger problems” they were referring to.)

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  23. You would think that the cost of operating a new building would be less, if it's built to be very energy efficient.
    And there should be cost savings in the combination of cafeteria staffs etc.
    And you should save some money due to busing students to one point instead of two.

    As for schools helping attract business's? Union City, Ansonia, Bradford all have newer buildings, they were not overrun with companies trying to relocate to their area's.

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  24. Maybe they need to find a new way to fund schools… I don’t know if they need or don’t need a new school, but what I do know: We were bamboozled when they all of a sudden the school board found a little extra money to buy the land… Bricks & mortar does not educate our children… and at the present time we can not afford a new school…

    Federal, State, County or City Governments have no earning power, only “taking” power. So if the State of Ohio claims they will pay 60% we the working citizens and / or property owners are paying for 100%.

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  25. If anyone wonders or doubts if a new school is necessary, take a tour of each. Go to the third floor of South School and see if you would like your eleven year old up there if there was a fire. I think people would be shocked at the condition of the inside of these schools.

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  26. It is good to see the board has a plan - amazing that a blog would have this information out and posted well before published.

    New schools are needed. The board needs to stand up front and center to discuss the decision and communicate how all this comes together.

    What is more important is if education is really happening in the buildings. This I'll fund - new buildings are the rewards for a job well done.

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  27. The OSFC has strict guidelines on the projects they will suply money towards. Old buildings are inspected, estimates made as to what it would take to bring buildings "up to code" or "up to date." If a renovation costs more than 2/3 the cost of a new building, the OSFC makes the decision that state funds will only go to a new building. If renovation is less than 2/3, the district may choose to renovate.

    GCS voters must keep in mind...if the the ballot issue is turned down, renovations will be 100% funded by the district.

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  28. Why is Greenville School Distruct penalized with only 40 percent coming from the STATE. All the other school districts have gotten 65 percent or better from the State??

    When are the schools in the county going to consider consolidation to make it better for everyone?

    Why does every community need a new building?

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  29. Every community needs a school in order to preserve their sports teams. It seems a little late to speak of consolidation when every Darke County school district either has built, or is building a new building. To those who give rational reasons for Greenville's new building: can your reasons ever be taken seriously without providing your name?

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  30. What kind of name is shcool mascot I dont have a problem with giving my name its dave I have a very old computer and dont have the money to upgrade to something better my computer want let me use the url.exept on the anonymous comment.

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  31. Bob Voigt, GreenvilleAugust 20, 2009 at 11:10 PM

    Has anyone ever taken the time to notice how Versailles has put the horse ahead of the cart.

    1 - They enticed the county to build the airport in their area. Corporations have airplanes.

    2 - They worked very aggressively on showing their pride as you drive through the town with new curbs, sidewalks and tree planting on ALL the main streets from corp. limit to corp. limit.

    3 - They have not enticed a bunch of government housing projects to be built that add to the financial burden of your community.

    4 - They have developed only upscale housing which adds to both the property tax receipts and the income tax receipts.

    5 - They have made a very attractive park to be enjoyed by the people, not for the pleasure of wild animals. People can take their children there and not have to worry about them getting in the goose crap.

    6 - After this has all been in place and the community knows where they stand financially, they then work on their schools.

    A lot of people complained because every other school district in the county was building and they weren't, but their leaders knew how to put a plan togeather and make it work. We could all learn a lot by paying attention to Mr. Gump and Mr. Doseck.

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  32. Put all the taxes on the property owners,pay for special election,give out free lunches,give the kids a free winter coat,pay for their school supplies,and some parents sit home and no work,but tell the working public we need more money. How many of these poor parents that can't aford school suplies will be at the fair.

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  33. To August 20, 2009 5:22 PM

    "Every community needs a school in order to preserve their sports teams."

    Is that all a school is good for to you? As others seem to point out about businesses coming to the area; I think a business looks for well educated people a little more than a well preserved "sports team."

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  34. Mr. Voigt, well said!

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  35. What it boils down to is that the greenville shcool board is lost and dont no what to do to fix the problem.They have spent money on stupid stuff like remodeling the supers office and paying for a 10.000 dollar desk for him.Then he resigned and ms Reigle took over I dont no much but I do no when I see money being wasted.Why should we pay for there mistakes.

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  36. School Mascot - I was unable to find this name in the phone book to seek a donation for "Back the Wave".

    Sincerely,

    Greenie

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  37. Maybe the school board should take some tips from some of the people and companies in downtown, lets see ---- the Building was built in 1887 and look at it now!!!
    School boards know little about upkeep and maintenance or the levies would be few and far between but at least the buildings would look and be nicer.

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  38. Do we need better education? Shcool is spelled "school", "dont" is written as "don't" "no", in this case is spelled "know", and "there" is this case is spelled "their".

    We need education, better schools bring in business, and what was good even 25 years ago needs to be rebuilt. Greenville, get with it, it's time to look at towns like Versailles and St. Henry. They are growing and bringing in business and they are not on 4 lane highways.

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  39. Just curious on the statement of Better Schools bring in Business, lets see, Ansonia new school, no new business, Missisinawa new school, don't believe any businesses, New Madison, no new businesses, Tri County North newer school, about 15 years old, no new businesses, Twin Valley South new school no new business, so by these schools it shows that staement is false.

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  40. It can be debated forever the value of a new school for a comminity. The towns mentioned are relatively small and have many good values.

    Three things are needed to improve our community, community, schools, and government working as a team for the same common goal.

    You have seen over the past several months that our community can work together, our schools are trying, now we need to et the government to join us. How, I do not know, but more citizens showing up at council meetings, county comissioners meetings, and school board meetings to show their support and ask why.

    It's time we all bury the hatchet and get over this so called power struggle between ourselves and work for the common goal.

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  41. new schools don't teach the kids,lets look at the teaching.besides that, how many business wanted to come in to Greenville and was refused.

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  42. I no of one Harley Davidson.

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  43. So we are cutting out bussing kids that are in town...what about cutting out the sports and band bussing seems to me that the children 5-6-7-and so forth are more important to get to there schools safely..i really cant wait to see how much sports bussing they cut out if any..if they dont,, it will prove to me that the educators priorities are not in there right place.. hey little kindergardener find your own way to school threw the rain snow and road crossings..cause we have to save our gas to take the highschool football team to there away games..keeping my eyes on the priorities...

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  44. There they go again, what will they threaten this time? They lied and threaten to take away busing and sports. Look what they did as soon as the last levy passed. Painted the parking lots, what's that got to do with education? Why not put the levy on the November ballot? Ah yes too many people have left the area for the winter in Feb., chances are bad weather will keep voters home. Let's face it too many do not vote other than November, because that was the way it was for years. This recession has not hit this area like it has others, guess what, it's coming and it hit you all hard. Obama's money? look at the clunker deal, still no money. Build a new school and you'll be stuck with the whole bill. Think about all the lies the school board has told us in the past. Why didn't the board have this on the ballot back in May? They knew about and knew if it was on the ballot, the levy would not have passed. Sneaky. [final comment removed]

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  45. Let me get this straight. The school would rather bus students to play sports and take the band to other schools for a half time show than bring students to school to receive an education that live in the city limits.

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  46. Harley Davidson, do you mean dealership, that won't happen, since they are built along many interstates, 1 reason Gover moved to Piqua, Manufacturing supposedly look at Greenville not too long ago, not enough tax incentives for them to make the move.

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  47. I am late to the discussion, but no less enthusiastic to see that Greenville is once again realizing the value of a good school system as the foundation and cornerstone to revitalizing our community. I do have one question I wish to posture: Why not go for the K-8 campus all at once? Bonds won't be cheaper in the future; jobs would be created Now which would put money back into our community NOW. Good schools attract businesses, upholds property values and creates community pride, all while giving our children the best possible education they deserve.

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  48. No Harley Davidson was going to open up a plant at hte old corning plant to build the new V rod and greenville wanted to anex it in to the city so they could tax it and Harley said no thanks.

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  49. Bussing to Cleveland for a football game?????? At least the band has the good sense to stay behind on that one.

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  50. I agree with Mr. Voigt but want to clarify that Versailles did not do all those things and then build the school by choice. The school board has been trying to pass a building levy since 1997. Each time a different plan (new high school, new K-8, etc) was presented to the voters and finally the K-12 passed.

    I do give credit to Village Administrator Gump, the last 3 Mayors, many town council members, the Versailles Chamber of Commerce, other civic groups, very philanthropic corporations, generous private donors, and the citizens for the state of the community.

    However it would be unfair credit to former Superintendent Doseck and lack credit to Superintendents Taylor and Fair to say they succeeded or failed to pass a levy. The various school options came from the Board of Education. Their first 3 levies failed and there were accusations of not listening to community input. The levy that did pass was also their plan. The real credit goes to the citizens who held out and voted down inadequate plans and then passed a comprehensive plan that addressed all existing needs and positioned the district for the future.

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  51. Social security gets cut in 2010, how are the people on fixed income going to make it. And for all you Obama fans, you'll be paying more taxes starting next year and you want to pay more taxes to the school. Wake up people, there are other ways to funding schools instead of taxing us to death. Ask your Congressman and your president. Better yet ask your (lefties) school board.

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  52. "Lefties" Are there even any of those in Darke County? LOL

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  53. Obama may not be the answer to all problems, but it was definetly a better answer then what the Republicans were offering.

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  54. Lefties on the school board??!?! If those people are lefties, what exactly is your conception of the right wing? That must be a terrifying group of people.

    HE CALLS THEM LEFTIES!!!! That's the funniest thing I've ever read on here. If you think those people are lefties, you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about.

    I'm still laughing at that one. INCREDIBLE!!!! Ha ha ha ha ha ha.... oh my side hurts. You Darke Countians sure are something else.

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