According to the Dayton Daily News, Ohio Secretary of State Jon Husted certified the enough signatures had been collected to place the future of Senate Bill 5 on the ballot for Ohio voters to consider in November.
231,147 signatures were required and 915,456 valid signatures were submitted. Check out the story for more details.
I am proud to say one of those signatures was mine!
ReplyDeletemost of the people who signed the petition don't even know what's in the bill
ReplyDeleteYeah, ask Boeing how well the unions work for business..
ReplyDeleteShow me a union that has ever HELPED the company they are in. There is a reason right to work states are bouncing back and growing job wise much faster than non-right to work states.
Hard Truth - Show me your facts. What are your statements based on? Give me some facts, not opinions. And show me how getting rid of fireman and police unions are creating jobs? C'mon....something other than your opinion.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 2:23 - How do you know this? Did you ask them all. No, I didn't think so. Maybe you are the one that needs to educate yourself.
ReplyDeleteHard Truth and Anon. 2:23:
ReplyDeleteI think you both should read the letter to editor in today's Advocate about the eye-popping pay raise given by the School Board to one individual with taxpayer's dollars. Then you should realize that SB 5 will give them ultimate authority to set pay for everyone under the guise that they are responsible to the electorate. Guess what?, they always have been and were last year and last week too.
I work for a public school, make 30,000 a yr. I have not received a pay increase nor a cost of living increase in 3 yrs. I spent many a times after I am off the clock working at school with no additional pay because I needed to do additional work for the next day. Getting rid of the SB5 bill will protect public workers being forced to work many hrs after work because the school board says we have too to work. My school district has not given out raises in 3 yrs. Have you ever wondered why the cost of items at Walmart climb? Those workers get raises and sick days and additional vacation days every yr. We are paying for that by buying the goods from Walmart so when SB5 says we as public workers are being overpaid & need to come down to the private sector level that is totally not comparable. When was the last time a Walmart worker paid for a customers purchase. Teachers buy things all yr long for their classroom and even for the students. We also must take college classes and buy a license every 5 yrs which the license alone is almost 300.00. We are different from the private sector workers and should not be compared to them nor be condemned because we make so much money. Most of the teachers I work with make 55,000 a yr or less.
ReplyDeleteAnon 10:22
ReplyDeleteYou are right it is hard to compare public to private sector. I think though you fail to realize you don't work all year round for your job like private employees so the amount you make per year doesn't sound like much but when compared to someone in the private sector who works all year round, it isn't so terrible. Also you are not taking into consideration your benefits. You can retire after 30 years of teaching. People in the private sector cannot do this because they do not have pensions to draw on. They only have what they have saved through their 401k or IRAs. People in the private sector also do not get retiree health insurance other than Medicare unless they get a personal policy and pay for it themselves. You commented that you have not gotten a raise or cost of living increase in the past 3 years, neither have I or my husband who work in the private sector. We also work salaried jobs. This means we have to put in whatever hours it takes in order to do our jobs. That may involve late night hours or weekends. This is the world of being a professional. I know of a small business owner who works about 70 hours a week all year long. I'm not sure how much he makes but he is not "rich" by any means. You also stated you buy items for your classrooms and for students. Are you required to do so or are you doing this by choice?
I also don't think bad teachers should be protected because of unions. I know of one teacher in particular that I know has had several complaints against her but no one in the district does anything about her because she is protected by the union. This is just wrong! Again, private sector employees don't get this protection unless they are part of a union. If you don't do the job correctly, then you shouldn't be able to continue working that job regardless where you work. Plain and simple!
I went to college for 7 years, came out with a doctorate and only made $30,000 a year. Funny how I was able to rent an apartment, buy food to put on the table, afford a reliable car, pay off loans of around $600 a month, and still save money for the future. Don't tell me how terrible it is to live on $30,000 a year. I understand it can be tough, but sometimes there are just tough cuts and choices that have to be made in spending money. I also had no employer provided "perks" such as insurance or days off or any of that. I never received a raise, my christmas bonus was always under $100, and I didn't have summers off.
ReplyDeleteThis is not to "rag" on teachers. Many in my family are teachers. It is just to say that you can live on $30,000 a year pretty easily if you work things out.
Funniest thing is that growing up my parents never made more than $35,000 a year and were raising four kids, with the last one just graduating high school , another getting out of the house two years ago, and another three years ago. So you can live on a salary around $30,000 a year. You just have to know what is necessary and what isn't.
Has anyone else been checking out the news concerning bills similar to SB 5 in other states?
ReplyDeleteGo to Connecticut. The DEMOCRAT governor there was essentially elected by unions and came to the realization soon after taking office that the ONLY place left to balance the budget was by taking an "SB 5" approach. It was either fire something like 4,200 state employees or unions make concessions. After they received pink slips, they made concessions.
Go to New Jersey. The DEMOCRATIC legislature approved measures similar to SB 5 because it was once again the last option available.
Go to Massachusetts. Another similar bill similar to SB 5 put forth by DEMOCRATS.
You go to Wisconsin, where Democratic senators shirked their duties they were elected to do by fleeing the state because of their bill similar to SB 5. Funny thing is, school districts there are reporting that the bill is helping save the district. Their employees gripe about the bill, yet the bill is essentially saving their jobs by saving the district. Sooner or later maybe they'll see that overturning the bill may mean the loss of their job!!!
In addition, before this year, 12 states did not allow collective bargaining by public employees. Ironically, most of those states are in pretty darn good financial shape.
Pretty soon the SB 5 opponents are just going to have to take off the blinders and realize that 2 + 2 still equals 4. If SB 5 gets voted down, the state will STILL need to make up the difference in the state budget. Where do you think that difference is going to come from? If Kasich has to pull a Gov. Dan Malloy (D - Conn) and pink slip state employees to balance the budget if SB 5 fails, don't start crying about how you lost your job! You would have been the person who just voted it away! [This is, of course, assuming Kasich can just cause state employees to be pink slipped. I don't know the law 100%, but as Gov, I believe he can...so if he can't, feel free to let me know, because then you'll just have to realize the state will immediately pass a stop-gap budget measure that will essentially incorporate a lot of things from SB 5 anyway and cause more posts on here about it!!!].
Common sense people. Common sense.
Anon 7:40
ReplyDeleteYes, "common sense." SB 5's proponents frequently state that they are giving the "tools" to cut spending to administration. Fair enough, as long as they are not just left in the toolbox. As we speak, countless Ohio school administrators are feverishly calculating the amount of payraise required to offset their soon-to-be-outlawed pickups if SB 5 is upheld. I think we all know that these raises will be granted. Thus, the noble intent of the legislation will be subverted, with the only element remaining being the destruction of the union; which was the paramount partisan intent all along.
Grover - the "paramount partisan intent all along" was the GOP's attempt at doing away with the unions for political gain. The Unions have been traditionally Dems supporters so by eliminating the union's power they were, in effect, dramatically lessoning the political oppositions ability to organize a vote and/or contributions. You are kidding yourselves if you think that it is all about the budget.
ReplyDeleteAnon 1:49
ReplyDeleteYou are exactly right, and that is precisely what I was implying. While the ostensible budget-reduction intent of SB 5 was honorable, it is not "idiot-proof" and therefore reduces to a simple mean-spirited Republican action. This would eliminate a check and balance on administration, the misfeasance and malfeasance of which was responsible for the collective bargaining legislation of 1983.
Funny, in Wisconsin where this all started, for the first time in years they have balance budgets and school districts are in the black again.
ReplyDeleteThough, you are correct, the unions are nothing more than strong arms and fund raisers for the Left, since the majority of this country is right leaning conservative, they have to make up for it somehow and the unions have been that tool.
That is also the reason they must go. When you have people who are paid via the tax payers, it is NOT in the tax payers best interests.
If the Democrats have such good ideas, let them have to stand on them in the court of public opinion like the right does, except they won't because they know that most liberal viewpoints clash with that of mainstream America.
States have always had balanced budgets, it's the law. This is nothing new. Perhaps Hard Truth should change his or her name to I Don't Know The Truth.
ReplyDeleteNot every state has a balanced budget requirement, look at California.
ReplyDeleteMaybe you should change you name to "D'oh".
Wisconsin, like Ohio and every other State also requires by law that cities, counties, any political subdivision, and school districts also have balanced budgets.
ReplyDeleteIf states always have balanced budgets please explain the 8 billion dollar hole the new Governer was left by Strickland. I guess the poster above does not know the truth.
ReplyDeleteThen explain Ohio, and California? Right.
ReplyDeleteA state balances its budget through a lot of "estimates" of what will something will cost and what something will bring in (such as tax revenue). Budget holes show up when those "estimates" go bad. Strickland's budgets were doomed from the beginning because he always assumed the state was heading for brighter days under him. As we all know now (and many knew then), the man was an abject political failure and a victim of his own stupidity. The man was not bright at all. When he was in town a few years back, I tried "talking shop" with him on topics he should have known something about. His eyes were completely glazed over and he was dumbfounded. His election was the byproduct of a duped electorate, similar to how Obama got into office.
ReplyDeleteCheck out Proposition 58 in the 2004 California spring election. A Balanced Budget law that passed and is in effect today like most other states.
ReplyDeleteMaybe the state and local govts. should stop handing out tax breaks to private sector industry. Why should multi million or billion dollar business be receiving breaks? Is it so the blue collar worker can continue to pay the bills and the rich get richer. Also, what kind of service do you think you'll be receiving if you pay your local police, fire and teachers in peanuts. You will get what you pay for, but that will give us all something to complain about later. Simply put, if you think a person would put their life on the line for you for a few dollars an hour, then I hope you vote with your hearts and aren't later disappointed with the outcome. Trying to balance the budget on our protectors backs is ridiculous. Let's face it, most of them are underpaid right now.
ReplyDeleteThat's fine, then watch the states that DO give companies tax breaks, get the new plants built in their states, while Ohio continues to bleed jobs. You have to give companies a reason to build and come here, if not then don't be surprised when they build elsewhere. Why do you think Texas, Georgia and other states have massive manufacturing plants going up all the time while Ohio is losing jobs and companies are leaving? Such as NCR for example, which went to Georgia.
ReplyDeleteRaise taxes on companies, but don't bitch when you're out of a job. No middle class or poor person ever created a job or hired anyone.
Anon at 11:46 a.m., seriously? That's the post you came up with? C'mon, you can do something besides the "you get what you pay for" card. Quite frankly, if a teacher, police officer, or firefighter is going to perform their job because they are not getting all the perks, then they don't need to be doing that job in the first place. I don't want that person performing that job if they aren't going to put their all into it. If it is about money now, it will be about money in the future, too, and we will never get that person to "give their all" on the job because it isn't about the job itself - it is about the money. If their sole reason is money, they need to go back to school and major in something they WANT to do with their life so that they don't have to be worried about the pay or major in something where they can make more money. Or they need to quit the job and go find a job somewhere else that will pay them what they THINK they should be paid! The problem is what they SHOULD be paid isn't a product of some number they come up with in their heads! If a community can only afford to pay their officers $35,000 a year, then only officers willing to perform the job at that price should be applying for the job! If it is ONLY about the money and you can't get paid what you think you should, apparently you made some poor life decisions on your way to where you are now. Time to start making new decisions toward starting a new life.
ReplyDeleteI would venture to say more people in the private sector are underpaid right now than people employed as teachers, police officers, and firefighters. Considering so many private employers are purposefully paying less in salaries just to see who will work for what, I think it is a pretty safe bet to make. The sob stories from teachers, police, firefighters, etc. about Senate Bill 5 have convinced me I need to vote to keep the bill as a law.
ReplyDeleteThe unions time has come and gone. They are no longer needed. Time for those unionized jobs to come down with the real folks now and just deal. Interestingly...my husband works for the government, government jobs aren't union jobs. He is on salary so has to work however long he is told to work and doesn't get paid extra for it. He hasn't had a pay raise in a while and the last one he had didn't cover the increase in cost of insurance or our insurance deductible let alone match the cost of living... with no negotiaters we are on our own. I think to many public sector workers comparing their jobs to private sector workers are comparing apples to oranges...ya'll just don't have a clue; especially when you are trying to compare a Walmart Retail Associate with an Elementary School Teacher...I mean, c'mon now!
ReplyDeleteI love Unions. Everyone has a choice rather they work in a place with a Union or not. If you dont like them dont apply for work where there is a Union, simple as that, Everyone has a choice.Thats why we live in USA people.
ReplyDeleteCome November, the voters will decide. Just like they have done in many states on balanced budget laws.....wait, according to many posters on here, those votes never happened.
ReplyDeleteTo anon, July 22, 7:23 a.m. - I do love how someone gives a "thumbs down" to a story of how people can make it on $30,000 a year salary with mass quantities of bills to pay, or on $35,000 a year with several kids at home. I guess someone doesn't like being told to "live within their means!"
ReplyDeleteI guess that tells you all you need to know about some of the people griping over SB5!!!
I am the individual who makes the $30,000 a yr and works for a school. My summers off is spent taking college classes so I can keep my job. The spending of my paycheck for classroom needs are because believe it or not there are parents out there who say its the teacher's responsibility to buy crayons, glue etc. And when a child wets or vomits on his/clothing, you got to have backup clothes unless you want your child sitting in it until the parent comes to school with clean clothes. Sometimes they don't show up at all. You send the child home in a new change of clothes and you never see the outfit again. So you go to the Goodwill and buy more. A teacher sends home a list of items the student needs and there are always those students who never have the $ to buy the theme books, rulers or graph paper. The state is now saying a teacher will graded on how well the student does on testing. If that student doesn't have the required items to achieve good test scores what is a teacher to do? And to think now a teacher will be held responsible for a student to study for a test ...well come spend an entire quarter in the classroom-you'll see what goes on. Ipods and cell phones kids can afford but not paper or pencils.
ReplyDeleteTo the $30K teacher - take their ipods and cell phones if they are in class with them and hold them until the student comes to school with the necessary supplies or returns the clothes. If they don't do what they are supposed to, you'll probably be very popular on eBay!
ReplyDeleteOh, and I certainly hope parents can afford to go to Staples the last couple of weeks and buy the "Free After Rebate" school supplies, or the boxes of crayons costing 50-cents. I don't really know what I am going to do with my 12-inch ruler I just got for 50-cents, but I didn't have a ruler of any type, so now I do!
Quite frankly, I think teachers put in a position like this should simply "fight back." A kid can't come to school with the necessary supplies? Enjoy the day in the office. A child gets sick or "has an accident"? Down to the nurses office.
I wonder if something like this would be permissible in public schools - Every year, every child must come with a $100 deposit. If the child shows up at school without proper school supplies, the cost of buying those supplies comes out of the deposit. If the school is taking a field trip costing each student $10 and the parents never send in the money, it comes out of the deposit. So on and so forth. At the end of the year, the parents receive the money back (with interest, of course) that hasn't been taken out of the deposit on their child. Of course, I hear it now that so many parents can't afford a $100 deposit per kid, but I am sure something could be done to combat some of this "lazy human trash parent" syndrome going on.
Just a thought...and not necessarily all that good of one.
thank you 2:47 for your imput but the downside to the idea of sending a child to the office is there is no learning going on and the principal does not have the time to babysit. If we sent every child to the office who didn't have the supplies or refuses to give up their ipod (and yes they do not hand them over but tell the teacher its mine and go ahead and call my mom) you cannot imagine some of the behavior issues of students today. They know they cannot be touched and they know every one of their rights. Personally I see why many parents choose to homeschool their children. This new system of basing a teacher's pay increase on test scores just baffles me. How can I force a student to study and do homework. We are all individuals and not robots who can be programed to do things.I may be the best teacher in a building but if my classroom consists of students from broken homes, a parent who works 3 jobs, and a house full of siblings, well its no wonder some of the students could care less about education, they have other issues on their plate, like where their next meal may be found.
ReplyDeleteI vote we give teachers an electromagnet for instances where a student comes in and won't hand over their ipod or cell phone. It will erase the info on the item and render it essentially useless (until they go home and sync it back up again with the computer, assuming it is an ipod or iphone...if it is a cell phone, they can have fun on the phone with the IT guys at Verizon telling them how to download their phones software again, if possible!). And hey, you wouldn't even have to touch the kid to take away their electronics (well, take away their ability to get much out of their electronics).
ReplyDeleteFor those of you stating what these teachers should do to their student's cell phones and i-pods, you obviously have no clue how the world works. Holding their items for "ransom"? Then when the parents sue to school and win, you will be the same people bitching about what the teacher did that cost the school/taxpayers money.
ReplyDeleteIf you really want to learn, go volunteer at a school and join the real world.
If you, as a teacher and an adult, allow a child to dictate what you do or do not do then what does that say about what you have chosen as your profession? This has nothing at all to do with worrying about parents, testing or anything else; you have given complete and utter control to someone who is immature, spoiled, manipulative, under 18 years of age and whose parents could more than likely care less about what they are doing as long as they are NOT bothering them.
ReplyDeleteI don't feel sorry for teachers today. Teachers allowed the system to devolve into the state it is in. The teachers should have told the parents NO but they let fear get the best of them. Teachers still can say NO. Their choice. They may not continue to work in public schools but then again they just might. Since no one has ever actually said NO there isn't anyway to know. Parents aren't free of responsibility either. Parents got lazy and decided schools needed to do their job too...I guess it only made sense, the kids spend most of the day at school.
Teachers need to stop worrying about the "what ifs" and just say no to buying this, that and the other, quit permitting bad behavior and quit enabling. If they don't have enough gumption for that then how can a person be convinced they have what it takes to teach well? Teachers were some people's idols when I was a child...I would hardly think that someone with no spine would be considered that now.
To Anon @ 10:53 a.m., 7/25/11...
ReplyDeleteI say schools take the same course of action that you say parents would take against the teacher/school if the teacher took away their lil' demonspawn's electronics in class. Sue the lil' idiots and their idiot parents. Call in children's services. Enact a zero-tolerance policy for CYBER BULLYING and remove the electronics from the possession of the kid because the electronics could be used to cyber-bully a kid from class. I don't care what you do, but teachers need to take back some control. If they get sued, walk up to the parent suing them, tell the deadbest you will continue to take away their problem child's items and if they have a problem with it, don't let the kid bring 'em to school!
Will any of this happen? Hell no! Schools are too scared of their students to do anything. I say privatize all schools and if a student comes in and is disruptive or refuses to learn, give 'em the boot! Build a few more jails and house the students who refuse to put forth any effort in there. After all, they are just aspiring to be there in the future anyway!
IE to any Ohio teacher's lament on being judged on their ability to teach as it stands up against testing. Really??? In the 2010 NAEP test in Geography; the MAJORITY of the US, as tested in the 4th, 8th and 12th grade, functions at the basic level...we are talking about 70-80% of the children. That means that a 4th grader can tell you that an airport will be in a city vs a town, an 8th grader can tell you where the state capital is and a 12th grader can identify an area map. Wait, it gets harder! The top 1-2 % have to answer advanced questions like: why would or wouldn't you use pesticides (4), identify what country a particulary landscape/form might be found in (8), why does the US import and export (12). What these tests tell me is that so little is thought about children's education and/or intelligence that they have dumbed down the test to the point a monkey could pass it or they just want to pad the scores to look good in the "world's" eyes.
ReplyDeleteI took the sample tests in 5 seconds and aced them. For me it should have been a segment of "Are you smarter than a 5th Grader?" and I struggled and had to use all my free help! It isn't any wonder that children are bored and disengaged if that is the way crap is being taught. If you teach down to a child, if you just teach them what they need for YOU to get by...then I do hope more people homeschool, use private and/or charter schools, and vote NO on SB5 if for no other reason than to turn the public school system on its collective rear-end not only in Ohio but across the US. And to any fireman or leo not happy with what they make right now...there are plenty of jobs overseas where you can make 3-4X what you make now; you just have to be willing to travel and put up with living conditions you aren't quite use to. Heck, the same can be said for teachers too.
Beth - Go volunteer at a school and then talk about teacher performance vs student/parent attitude. You will likely be shocked. Easy to assume, difficult to find out by going there and finding out the truth. Your oversimplification is silly and out of touch.
ReplyDelete