If Greenville cannot pass a "sneak attack" special election levy, one will not pass until the school board and administration face a house cleaning. Expect another one by Feb 2011 (and the administration praying for snow).
Iam glad to see that people have cast there vote. we are paying enough taxes. they need to figure out we the people that are paying taxes are tappped out. we are cuting out extra items maybe they need to do the same. quit having special elections like the one that i have heard of in august for the school levy. the signs going to say now should be the time. after another 20,000 + for the election . people need to stick together and speak up at city meeting and school meeting enough is enough.
This was not a bad reflection on the superintendent or the school board. It's a reflection on the bad economy, and it sucks that our schools and children have to pay for it. My son is in the Greenville school system and I very much respect Ms. Riegle. It seems that people in this community think that the answer to this whole issue is to move away and put your child into one of the surrounding schools, and that's sad. Whenever the Greenville School System tries to do something to improve the schools for the better it is always turned down by the people in this community.
People were flabbergasted when the last levy passed. A lot of people didn't think they needed to bother getting out to vote. This time around they apparently decided they needed to get up and say no. And say no they did! This was not even close for a special election. Something will have to change for a levy for the new school to pass.
Your right, the people have spoken. We pay way to much in school tax. I think we pay the most taxes except for almost every other district around. Come on people. I don't want to pay anymore than I have to, but look around at what people around here pay. My taxes are about 1600 a year, but the same type house I have in the Brookville or Northmont district I would be paying two almost three times this amount. No one likes paying taxes, but we really have it easy compared to others. We won't have the opportunity to get a large chunk of state money for this project for much longer. If you really think this is just a big money grab to be wasted, go look for yourself. Quite listening to all the blow hards on both sides....LOOK FOR YOURSELF at the age, shape, and quality of south school and the jr. high. Responsible spending has allowed these building to be used well beyond what they should be, but don't believe me...LOOK FOR YOURSELF. Now was the time, but soon HAS to be the time.
Those buildings have not been kept at the level of excellence that Greenville students have deserved. There are similar schools in other communities in pristine condition. Take care of what have or you may get what you deserve.
I didn't want any new taxes either, just like all of you, but its not about me.. its about our kids, their safety and their education. This is not Susie Riegle's problem - this is A GREENVILLE PROBLEM! Come on greenville do what is right for our future!
It is a sad day for Greenville citizens in two ways. First the school levy failed and second only 34.4% of registered voters (5,183 out of 15,050) exercised their right to vote. Unfortunately this just shows that a very large majority of our citizens do not care. Unfortunately we should all care that the levy failed and we most certainly should care enough to go vote. For those that were against the levy the mind set is, “we cannot afford more taxes.” Well did those that voted “no” just happen to think that the poor condition of our schools is a direct reflection of our poor local economy? Most all citizens would agree that Greenville needs more new businesses to locate here. Well guess what? New businesses are not going to locate in a community that does not care or does not have pride in their schools. Also guess what? If new businesses would locate here in Greenville they would absorb some of the tax burdens by paying taxes into the school system and community. New schools are an essential element to attracting new businesses. New businesses in turn will benefit our schools and community. You can accept this reality or choose to ignore it. If you choose to ignore it, Greenville will continue to struggle. If you choose to accept it and vote next time to support our schools with new facilities, Greenville will rebound and thrive. The choice this time was “no, we want Greenville to struggle.” What about next time? The choice will be yours again. My hope is that citizens will accept the reality that we need and must support our schools. Now is the time to support Greenville City Schools more than ever!
How about Memorial Hall or the Library… I believe they are over 80 to 100 years old?
It’s time to find an alternative way to fund the schools like sales tax. Folks are tired of it constantly being placed on the property owners. Yes, you would think that would affect renters also, but with Greenville’s push on low income apartments, many are paid by Metropolitan.
In my opinion the school board does not have the best credibility within the community. With the mess over the land purchase and special elections, they are going to have to repair confidence in the community.
Lastly the economy has taken a real toll on this community. A lot of folks are struggling just to make ends meet. Now was not the Time.
Some of these comments are pathetic. "Sad day for Greenvile" and "so few voted." Come off it, people, and try to learn something from this. Look at the statistics from the last special election Greenvile held for a levy in May. Only 31.6%. The percentages for this election went UP (34.4%). Last election - 2443 for. This election - 2251 for. What does that tell you? It tells you that people supporting it last time around were not supporting this time around! So GCS needs to look into why that is and realize that it doesn't matter if they put it on another ballot - the people of Greenville WILL NOT SUPPORT IT IN THIS MANNER! They are going to have to look at other options to try and bring back into the fold those that defected for this election. Try a sales tax! Try an income tax! Try pay-to-play! Try selling cupcakes! I don't care what you try, just try something else! But don't insult the people of Greenville by putting basically the same levy back on the ballot within the next year. It will just go down even harder.
Van Cleve 6th grade building in Troy, built 1914. This is a system where the board office rapairs what they have. I personally have been in that building when my wife tought there before it was turned into the 6th grade building. Forest & Kyle are two other examples where the board has taken care of older buildings. Greenville can do it too.... So take a road trip to these schools and please report back.
Ok folks here we go. You got what you asked for. We are tired of every aspect of the government taking advantage of the small group of people who pay taxes in this country. We spoke and "Enough is Enough"! In fact that is what my signs will say that I will order by the semi load for our next sneak election.
John I agree! You want it... lets do it with a sales tax so those welfare people take it (you know were) along with us. Do you realize how many of them get that Metropolitian and have their (working able) boyfriends living with them who may or may not work, but do cheat the system. Thats the same government that runs our schools. Why would we think it would be different. Lets fix some things in this country before we think the money grows on trees again.
Before more of you complain about your current tax burden, I'd like to share some facts.
The school district income tax for Greenville is 0.50%. All of the other districts in the county are 0.75 or even 1.50% For 2008, the total property tax millage for Greenville was 33.40. This ranked Greenville as 522nd highest of 615 school districts in the state. (Source: ohio department of taxation)
I do not like paying taxes. I get upset at how most of my tax dollars, especially federal income tax, get wasted. I did not, however, have any difficulty voting "yes" for this tax levy/bond issue.
For me, it boils down to this: There are few things as important to me as my children and their future. It is important enough that I am willing to prioritize this ahead of many things in my life even if it means making some financial sacrifice.
I know that there are some in this community who voted "no" because they are struggling to keep a roof over their heads and food on the table. I certainly don't blame you. I can only imagine I would do the same thing.
I suspect that most who voted "no" certainly could have afforded the cost of the levy. They voted "no" because they are too selfish to place anyone's future ahead of their comfort. You enjoy being able to eat out whenever you like. You want to make sure that when the next hot gadget hits the stores(maybe even an iPad), you can buy yourself one or two. You love the 46" televison in your living room and maybe want to get another for the bedroom. Those of you who voted "no" to maintain your very comfortable lifestyle, you probably deserve the miserable life you are buying for yourself.
Here is the problem...The economy is bad. City government contributed to the loss of new business coming to town because of mistakes made. The same good old boys have been running things for a long time. Rumors of misused funds based on ignorance of the facts and the public's misunderstanding of how things work financially have bred mistrust. This fueled by actual screw-ups in hiring for example, superintendents of the past, (EXCLUDING Susie R.)in ignoring their failure to do their job maybe watch TV or take multiple 4 day weekends, for years at a time again rightfully caused mistrust. Ours is an aging community with many on fixed incomes. The attitude of "I don't have any children in school" also contributes to a NO vote. Unfortunately, our town is dying a slow and painful death with no real influx of new families in large part to the failure of residents to support the schools. Our teachers do an excellent job in teaching and raising children who have parents who think it is the school's job to do so. These parents never show up for parent teacher conferences or IEP meetings. Let their child get in trouble and it is all the teacher's fault. These teachers stay at school hours after school preparing for the next day. They bring work home nearly every night to benefit the children because they do not have adequate planning time to do the job they need to do at school. Many spend hundreds of their own dollars every year to purchase needed supplies the school system can't afford to purchase and often parents refuse to buy for their children. Yet these same "refusenics" have money for cigs, beer and expensive cell phones, video games and the big cable TV packages. Let us quit hiding in the darkness and admit that our teachers are top quality and dedicated individuals who honestly care about our children. Let us admit that a lot of our public is living in ignorance as to the finances of this community's schools. Let us (yes again) pull our heads out of the dark crevasse and see many of our buildings are falling apart and replacement would cost initially but would pay for themselves in utility, repair and other savings. I have privately surveyed many good citizens of this community to find old grudges and ignorance are keeping otherwise good people from making informed decisions. People angry with people long gone letting this anger influence their vote. Increased taxes are a real threat to everyone involved. No one wants to pay more than they have to. I understand that but no one is breaking down the doors to buy houses in Greenville as the values drop with each levy that does not pass. You wanted facts...now you got the facts. Any of them make you think..I hope so! Look at the decline of property values in and out of Greenville. Haven't you figured out yet that they are tied to the real or perceived value of the local school system? Go to Kettering, Oakwood, and Beavercreek to name a few. Good schools high property values and yes they have taxes that people do not mind paying because of the advantages of living in those communities. Houses are selling in those communities people are breaking down doors to live there. Why not here? (See above). It is easy to find reasons not to do something. There is no easy way out of the situation we all share. Anyone can make excuses not to support something. What takes courage is making a tough decision. One that might involve short term sacrifice for long term benefit. It is sadly obvious that people in this community haven't figured that out yet. Please wake me when they do. Over the years that I have been a resident here I have watched the drain of life blood flow from what was a thriving proud community. Very sad.
Anonymous at 9:54- agreed. I now live in a southern Ohio school district (but still own property in Greenville and thus would have been affected)- we live in the same value house as we did in Greenville. Our Tax Bill in Greenville, $963/half. Our Tax Bill here: $1835. most of the difference- school tax. Our school district here, in turn is in the top percentages in the state.
I do agree with what someone said in a post that the tax burden should be shared in a manner that affects all- not just home owners though.
Something needs to be done with the school buildings. Those who voted "no"- would like to hear suggestions.
Anonymous February 2, 2010 10:44 PM, You really don't know what your talking about. I am so sick of hearing you and other idiots talk about a new building and how it will improve the childrens education and bring all these jobs to Greenville. What were they going to use? magic bricks? Once again try to understand, It takes way more then a new building to make a great school system. Business owners or corps. that look to locate in an new city, look way more into the school system then just the building. They don't say well they are at the bottom in the rankings of their county, but wow look at that new building, that new building makes it alright. You have to improve from within first.
Way to use the pea brain this town uses when thinking every issue through.School buildings are just that buildings,however how much better would your attitude towards learning and bettering yourself be if your building was something your were proud of and enjoyed being in.Yes taxes are high but there are other ways around only property owners paying the brunt of this .I agree with fix what is broken or out of date but fix it right no temporary patches.I am a homeowner and a parent of two just starting there years of school I will not let them down wish everyone else in this town felt the same.
John, As it was stated in an earlier post, sales tax is set by the county commissionaires and state legislators. The two buildings you spoke of had multi-million dollar renovations.
This is a sad day! There is absolutely nothing wrong with Ms. Riegle! Greenville is a better school because of her. You have obviously not met her. Don't hide behind ANONYMOUS if you are going to bash someone!
I have a son that lives in florida and no one pays a city income tax in Lakeland and they also have no state income tax or state school tax.
Yet they have very nice schools. They do have a county school system. That alone saves the people a bundle of money. Wake up darke county, all the schools are hurting, if not now they will be down the line.
The 'blame" if that's what you can call it, is with whoever (the state allottment from Darke County) decided to raise Real Estate taxes by galloping amounts right before this issue came up. Voters who saw their home valuations go down also saw their taxes increase (that's one way to raise money)! If the school board erred at all it was with the timing of the special election---they hoped most conservative voters would be in Florida, or would not venture out in the February cold. Someone should have looked at the RE taxes calendar.
It does not make sense to have school buildings, books and teachers idle for almost 3 months every year. This is a hold-over from agrarian days. Year round use of these assets make sense (I can hear teachers howling---including my teacher-daughter) might even increase test scores.
Parents: be an auxillary to your child's teacher, discover what the child is being taught in school and expand that topic at home,(books at the library can help---family trips are a super chance to educate your own child). In the first place, just showing interest in what the kid is learning is a great influence.
For the childen in this town to be educated in a sfe enviroment is key, are they??? What if another accident happens and someone gets hurt??? The schools are trying to listen and start smaller than originally planned. Guve them some credit! They are not just looking to take our money, they are trying to help the children and the community! Cuts have been made and still they need help. If the next one doesnt pass we will have to pay the whole amount whne it is time to build. They do not have a back up building anymore and the cost to build will only go up in the future. Screw your heads on tight and think about the future!!! Work with the schools and see for yourself what they need, don't assume ( assuming makes you look stupid!) And for Mrs. Reigle, you are doing a great job! In case you missed it...I VOTED YES!
Their must be alot of rich people in the school district. I'm on a fixed income and my property taxes just went up over 600.00 dollars. I'm going to have a very hard time paying these new taxes on my property. Then if this levy wouldv'e passed my taxes wouldv'e been another 200.00 dollars. With that kindv'e jump I might lose my property.
I suppose someone will have to be hurt or killed by debris from the deteriorating buildings before the people of this town wake up. The defeat of this levy only reinforces the image of Greenville as an ignorant, backwater town. Why do you think business doesn't locate here? It's all about the reputation of the area. I would move away in a second if I wasn't stuck with property that I probably can't sell.
Maybe Ms. Riegle can pay for a special election out of her 100,000+ salary.....
You are ignorant. Try her job... If you have the education. Which I'm guessing you don't. Do what she does... If she makes 100,000. She is under paid. You have no idea what she does!
Thought I would expound on what I said earlier. Apparently John H and a few others either can't comprehend that the trouble is not with Susie R. "Majic Bricks John"...I guess I know what a conversation about renovation and saving the once proud city of Greenville will extract from you. Did you really read what you wrote? Now the Florida thing...If we had their weather and recreational opportunities we could have their economy. that aside I have not heard any constructive solutions to the problem. To you who pay $600 in taxes, I respect that. I pay 5x that amount and I voted YES. Why...because if you would re-read my first entry with an open mind, you might see WE ARE WORTH IT. Mr "Who is paying for the special election?, and Mr "Maybe Ms.Riegle should pay for it"...You still have your heads in that dark place. Be careful sitting down. I agree the powers that be shafted the election prospects with the latest tax hike. If they would have waited you would have constructed some conspiracy to have did it form you until after the election. Build some character people. Listen if you want services you have to pay taxes. If you don't want to pay taxes move to Mexico or Haiti. No school taxes there. Some of you do get it. I am pleased that you do. It appears that the least informed still don't get it. They are waiting for their new car, or the government to buy them a house as promised. "Mr Year round schooling"...Does not work. Please re-read the previous statement. Been tried and DOES NOT WORK. Besides, if there was year round school the breaks of two and three weeks would still equal 3 months vacant. School is in session approximately 180 days. Does not matter how you cut it up. Get with the program! To all who read this...If you are going to criticize the schools, Administration or my ramblings...Do it with facts. I do not want to debate feelings or rumor. Give me facts. I do not play well with whiners, some of whom who do not know enough not to eat the yellow snow. X-MAN
To the 6th grade 80 year old Troy building, 2 questions.... 1. how much are they paying in their taxes? Are they above the 552nd district that we are. And 2. Should I go look at that building before or after I go through their new school that just opened up last year. And the library is a beautiful building that just had how much put into it and Memorial Hall... isn't that a part of the school system. And to others and why don't you do it like Florida or make a sales tax.... you think the school system wouldn't pursue that avenue if they could??? You CAN NOT increase sales tax for the school system in the state of Ohio. Any yes Florida does not have a lot of the taxes we have, but they have a lot of others we also don't have. Want to build a little shed in your back yard in Florida... see how much it will cost you in something called an "impact fee"....trust me, it becomes a very expensive shed.
To Anonymous: You seem to want to what you say Whine, then state your name in the "Facts" that you are given. This problem is not about Susie Riegle or administration, it is about the people of our community. I am a business owner and home owner and lived here all my life - my kids graduated from greenville and I have grandkids attending greenville. Yes, My taxes went up with the assessments and yes they would go up with the levy - however, I BELEIVE IN OUR KIDS, MY KIDS, YOUR KIDS.... ON AND ON - THAT IS REALLY WHAT THIS IS ABOUT. Greenville will at some point build a new middle school - we could have built it with the states help or we will pay for it 100% later..... I'm curious to al the anonymous - did you vote on Tuesday?
Kathy, I can't tell if you are in agreement with me or not. You seem to start off attacking me ..Did I understand you want me to state my name? then you seem to agree with me. Yes, this is about the children and much more. Again for those of you who tuned in late if you read my first email I stated plenty of fact. I refer you to Feb 3, 2:19 am. As for your "at some point we will have to build a new middle school..." I totally agree. I also mentioned I did vote and I voted yes. Hope this helps. X-MAN
I think he should run also, since he appears to know EVERYTHING. Including, we don't know what we are talking about. I wonder how it feels to be that intuitive and well informed? Maybe he could share some of those magic bricks with us. X-MAN
John, Void of facts, do you mean like your posting? Have someone help you, John. I can wait. SEE ENTRY DATED, F E B R U A R Y 3RD, 12:19 AM. I did not sign it as I only intended to write one comment. SOOoo do not look for X-MAN at the B O T T O M. Just the date and time. If you lived here long enough you can easily check out those pesky little elusive facts. If you need any more help John, I'm here for you. X-MAN
I need some of the magic brick and maybe i can start growing a money tree in my back yard . my kid think money grows on trees so does GSC. Does anyone no when the next election is are the just going to keep the signs up and make it next week. need to get the word out soon as someone knows. you can just about bet it wont be in may or november.
The worst part of all of this is sitting here reading these comments, and seeing how no one is offering to help do anything to make Greenville or the schools a more positive place to be (ie. running for school board, county commissioner, etc). I, for one, have a job - but I also make the time to do some volunteer work in the schools (yes I have a family to take care too). I would bet a good amount of money that most of you posting here - even if you have kids in the system currently, or kids that went through the system - have never taken the time to be in any of the buildings to see what goes on day to day, or have even spoken to Susie R. or any of the board members. I can also say that I know of 5 families in my little area that have said that they are now considering putting their kids in Versailles this fall. That's such a shame because Greenville just loses more. A new building would not bring more jobs. It will not make the current teachers better (even though 99% of them are great). It would not make the studnets or families any different. But, the potential savings for the district are great. The potantial of having people move into the area does have light. The future is what we all have to look at....and even if our pockebooks are stretched to the max, we live in Ohio and this is how Ohio public schools are funded. If you have a better idea - than call the state board of education and voice your opinion there. Call your state representitive.
i get why some voted no. though I am willing to guess that 90% voted "no" for the wrong reasons. I completely agree that non-property owners should NOT be allowed to vote on an issue that imposes a tax on property owners.
it seems that a 1/2% sales tax incorporated in the bounds of the school district would assure that all ends pay proportional to their residency in the community.
I don't agree with the people whose sole argument is "fixed income." When they had kids in school- they would have done what they could to make sure their kids education was in in the utmost. And yes, while they were in school years ago- someone else had to sacrifice so that they could have an education in a facility that was relevant to the time.
Troy has maintained their buildings because their taxes have been appropriate to the size and scope of their district for years. 84% of the state pays more for their taxes than Greenville.
It is just sad that most of the "NO" voters have voted that way because they have no "skin in the game" - fixed incomes - or worse, out of vendetta. this has nothing to do with the supt, nothing to do with the board. You can vote them all out and once your "chosen" come in and see the size and scope of the problems that the average voter NEVER sees- you'll be calling for their head too.
Below is a paraphrase from Emerson’s writings. “You can pay back only seldom but you can always pay forward.” We had the opportunity yesterday to invest in our schools, community, youth, and most importantly our future. Unfortunately the majority voice was “No!” The only way our to improve our future is if we decide it is important enough now to pay forward. Paying forward requires sacrifices today so that the generations to come may benefit. What a legacy we could start here in Greenville by paying forward! Think about it.
I think the sentiment of those opposed could be summarized like this: These school tax levies will be unfair until they find a way to tax everyone but me.
A new Facebook group has been formed for those who support the construction of the new middle school. This recent defeat only stalls the inevitable. The eventual construction of this school means everybody in the community wins.
In Facebook search "Greenville, Ohio WILL have a new middle school."
Negative, negative, negative !!!! Success starts with a positive attitude. For those of you who are complaining need to come up with a solution and become more active in the community. Posting negative comments on Darke Journal will not change anything.
If I'm a fool and childish then scroll back up and look at the final vote! I am tired of all the crying,did the kids go to school today? I will answer that yes they did there still learning like usual, why is it every time something doesn't go greenville's way it's a disaster, every school district has had the same problem get off your high horse greenville and come back to the real world!
If the state and county commiish decide the sales tax.Wouldnt it be a easier battle to win if they tried getting a sales tax increase?X man if you have all these facts you talk about why didnt you post them on here before the election?I think your full of B.S. myself.All the goverment agencies in this city needs to be tore down and rebuilt.They have screwed it up for so long there is no way to fix it without starting over.
Susie Riegle worked hard and long to educate this community about WHY NOW IS THE TIME... Carla Surber, Dave Peltz and John McGreevey and others worked long and hard too, they went the extra mile for OUR students and OUR community. I appreciate all their hard work and thank them for being LEADERS. We've never had a better or more dedicated team in place.
When the bond is up for another vote they will have my full support once again.
X-MAN returns to answer all your impish and naive questions. First Richard, scrolling back to the final vote means nothing. Ignorance also elected certain government officials who I won't bring into this blog by name. Yes you are childish and foolish and I have heard more intelligent and compelling arguments on the playground. Duke, I did not discover this den of intellectual exchange until this morning at 12 am. As for the BS...I and listen closely..never have to lie or call names to make a point as I use my head as more thatn a hat rack. Facts are facts and if you got off your lazy 6 and investigated things you would be able to access this information as I have over time by listening to the people in power in this town. Less mouth and more ears = knowledge. Try it you will like it! Glad I could help you boys out. I have a box of Kleenex if yo feel the need as I am a sharing person. X-MAN
I voted yes. Our taxes here are much lower than neighboring counties. I am constantly reviewing my budget. Others should do the same. For those of you that cannot afford your home, put it for sale and buy something you can afford. I look forward to voting yes for the schools in our next election. I have heard enough of the negativity.
To the 2/3/10 8:27 PM post just how dumb do you think we are in Greenville? I want to know which one of the 4 wrote that comment or did you have your secretary write it for you. If it was not one of you, it had to be a school board member, what a JOKE!!!!!
I just wish the shool board would be honest with the public. They are wanting a levy passed to build a middle school, next they will want another levy for new elementary schools then another levy to build a new high school. Then they will realize they don't have enough money to maintain them and it will take more levies to pay for the upkeep. They haven't spent the money to maintain the buildings in the past so why would they do it for new buildings. Leave it for the next board to worry about. It's not that bad yet.
hey x man why dont you do everbody a favor and unfind this site.people like you is why it is so hard to do anything in this town.It is allso why this town and county and country is going down hill.So save your high and mighty B.S. for someone that wants to here it cause from what Ive read on here no body wants to here from a comic book joke.You should be a politician you would fit write in.
Every time I think I have heard it all 10:12 post in this case tops it all. Yes, we will have to eventually replace most of the buildings. Duh. Natural wear and tear and the fact "nothing lasts forever" will take its toll, eventually. How can you say "they haven't spent the money to maintain the buildings in the past..." Did you pull that unfounded and easily dis-proven statement out of your hiney? How can you spew such nonsense?? Do you really believe that? X-MAN
This has been a pretty sad outburst by those pining for the levy to pass. When the levy passed in May, there were all of 8 comments on this site, no flood of whining about it having PASSED! Kroger just had to place an order for an extra shipment of Huggies because so many diapers need changed!
Seriously, move on and learn from the failure of this levy. Look to improving the prospects of passing the next levy instead of blaming everyone who voted against it.
My question-Who helped pay for your education when you were children? People should really get out and tour the schools to see what the children are going to every day.
Maybe some of the 'no' voters could sit in a classroom at South School for a day. Plan ahead if you need to use the restroom because you will have to go down several flights of stairs to the basement. Be careful, the restrooms are 100 years old. Susie Riegle is underpaid as she is doing 2 jobs for her salary. She takes care of the Special Education services which now saves the district that administrative salary. Susie has poured her heart and soul into this school district. She is seen at K-12 school functions in contrast to previous superintendents. This election was not a 'sneak attack'. The information was put out into the community and she was available to answer your questions, TRUTHFULLY! If we don't accept the monies from the state it will only cost us more in the future when the buildings do not meet the needs of ALL students as required by the state department. I am on a 'fixed income'too, but am willing to support the educational system as I have lived here all my life.
This is why I left Greenville and don't ever plan on coming back. I spent 13 years in the Greenville system, left to go to college and I'm obtaining a graduate degree now. I can count on one hand how many of my college educated frieds have returned to Greenville. We have all moved on to better places where the communities support the education of their children. Good luck to those of you who are still there and trying your best to help this generation of Greenville students, because my generation is gone and we're never coming back.
How many homes here in grennville that are 100+ years old and have the same bathrooms they where built better back then they all do the same thing.and it is good for the kids to go down stairs and up stairs there are to many that just sit around playing video games. it would be nice to have a new car and to be proud of it and to show it off. if the bank wont give you the money because you have no job and you are using your unemployment to pay you bill no bank is going to give you what you need. the same story a new school will give me a job when a new business comes to town and my child is smarter because of the teachers teach better in a new school. look around darke county we dont have jobs like dayton or bellbrook and more people are moving away for those jobs.
Two comments: First to Feb. 3 at 10:12 PM. Great idea to it leave it for the next board to worry about? That is why the buildings are now so old because no board or administration in the past has worried about it. I give this board and administration credit for their hard work and vision to move forward in a positive direction. Just think if every board had your pitiful mindset and did not worry about it, it would never get accomplished. Second to Feb. 3 at 11:25 PM. It is great that you left to go to college and are now obtaining a graduate degree. I sure hope you do not take your “I do not care attitude” to wherever you choose to live. Greenville must have given you a decent high school education since you were able to move onto college and graduate school. Who paid for you to go to high school here? It was citizens of Greenville that cared about your education. Therefore you may want to remember your past a little bit and be thankful and not so negative and judgmental. I graduated from Greenville and have applied my college degree right here in my hometown. I am being positive about Greenville and plan to continue to support proposed improvements for our schools and community.
People are moving away because of jobs yes, but they are also moving away because people in this town could care less about where the live. There is no pride about anything anymore, and the only thing people want to do is complain about everything. If you can do better then go get an education and fix it yourself. Like the post 2/3/10 11:25 said, Greenville graduates are leaving this town and never coming back. I know i have. Until people in this town can grow up and face the facts, you will continue to lose quality people and the city will soon turn into a ghost town.
I tried to make the point that education has more to do with teachers and parents and less to do with shiney new buildings. If you take a look at this country's best colleges---some buildings are over 200 years old. It's what's IN the system, not what it looks like.
1) Sales tax is not an option allowed by state of Ohio at this time for a city school district to assess or request. 2) Schools have been supported. Let's quit complaining. An operating levy was passed last year for 3.9 mills. 3) The last request for buildings was 6 years ago. There has been no other request for buildings since then. 4) If the school board is the problem; why did the community re-elect 2 board members in November? 5) I voted for the levy 6 years ago. I did not for this one. And will not until a comprehensive plan for district needs is done and communicated. 6) District has not lost access to anything other than $1/2 million reimbursement for facade repairs to the Junior HS. 7) The thought of a 37 year bond needs to be reviewed. Maybe 25 year bond. The amount of interest cost may be no more for the district taxpayers even if stimulus funds not available.
Before you hammer me as old - I have 20 years left in my working career, have been active in community, youth programs, church life and commited to Greenville. I can afford the increase.
I do think that new and renovated buildings are needed for the district. But lets do it within a overall plan.
To the person who thinks it is a fitness advantage for children to walk down three flights of stairs to use the bathroom...your thoughts come from a pathetic place. Comparing one or two pristine older homes with our crumbling schools does not make sense. People stay in those homes because they want to. They take pride in them and invest in them to keep them in working order. Children in our schools have no choice. Walking down the stairs will keep them from playing video games. What a great system! I did not know they had a choice of playing video games or going to the bathroom. To the young person who moved away and will never return: Can't blame you. My children have chosen to go to where the opportunities are and unfortunately they are not here. Not that they don't love Greenville...There is really nothing to keep a young educated person in their town. Now for the 200 year old college buildings. They look great because they (the college community) pour millions of dollars into them every year to overhaul and maintain them. These colleges have a support system with endowment funds in the hundreds of millions. All we have is you. Education DOES have more to do with teachers than structure (and we are blessed with dedicated and talented teachers). but...when structure has gone from conducive to education to joining the other side we have a problem. In the long run it will be a MUST DO to replace these buildings. When that is done money will be saved overtime in many of the costs of utilities, repair and other areas. I know this is a difficult concept for some of you to comprehend. There is so much narrow mindedness and selfishness being displayed here. It seems the narrow mindedness comes from those who are least informed. Educate yourself on the facts not the junk you hear at Liar's tables, barbershops, and bars. Investigate. Get out from your TV and ask the tough questions and accept there are facts out there which conflict with you lock step opinions. Then come back with something to share that is factual and possibly constructive instead of all the belly aching. My be is the whiners do not volunteer at the schools. Most probably either don't have kids in school or if they do never attend meetings. Finally...Aren't you tired of the younger generation moving away from our town with our grandchildren instead of staying here and putting those children in our system? I know I am. The problem is not just in a building. It is the big picture. It has a snowball effect. Some of you need to learn to forgo immediate gratification for long term gains. Who cares if the levy will take 37 years. If we would have done this 6 years ago we would have only 31 now. The longer we wait the worse it will get. Construction costs are down. Funds are NOW available to help. I do not see a better time to act. Any improvement to the school system benefits EVERYONE in Greenville. If you don't like that maybe you should move. I hate Quitters oh yes and Whiners. Do something constructive. No whining is not constructive, sorry. X-MAN
X-Man you are the one who is whining. Maybe instead of putting people down who did not support the levy, you should try encouraging them to see your side. I'm sure people will listen to you alot more this way. As soon as you start to down grade them, they will shut you out. Reading your post, you do sound pretty intelligent, but also very arrogant. About walking down the stairs to use the restroom. You missed the persons point. They did not say the children play video games in school. They were pointing out that kids spend too much time in front of them at home (at least thats how i read it). That the exercise does them good. Qiut being such an arrogant ass and maybe people will listen to you.
I think you misunderstood my Feb. 3rd at 11:25 post.
I don't have an "I don't care" attitude towards the community at all. I enjoyed my time in Greenville, and I believe I received a quality education. What I was trying to state was that if the community doesn't support the school system as a whole, then it's going to lose a lot of people who went off to college. Why would I want to live in a community that doesn't support its school system?
The point I was trying to pass along was that the "it's fine the way it is" attitude that permeates everything in Greenville is driving away well educated people like myself and those who I graduated with. The general attitude of "gee I wish it were 1950 still" is one which will only push the younger generations, as well as employers, away from the city.
The attitute represented towards this measure by many of the people who have posted comments here, is a reflection of the community's attitute in general, which is "if it's not broke don't fix it, and if it is then complain about it as opposed to actually fixing it."
Any while I enjoyed my time in Greenville, and my time when I go back to visit family, I would rather live in a community that doesn't oppose tax measures which go to help the community.
I have read every comment on this page, and to be honest I’ll say on thing, people on both sides of the issue are sure passionate. There are very few facts given rather most are opinions with passion. The one notable fact, no one wants to give an inch on this issue of building a new school, and to make things worse, it has gotten to the point of name calling from both sides.
I moved here in 1965, and although we have many problems I still like it here. Over the years I have seen many changes, some good and some bad. Unfortunately our community is situated in a State which is not very business friendly, and what that means to us is the loss and hard to draw jobs in our area, couple that with a hard economic time, people and businesses are hurting.
I’ve raised my children and watched them grow up in this rural area and I am still seeing some of my grandchildren growing up here. As with any controversial project, we all need to work together and listen to each other, work through the problems and do what is best for our community. We will never be able to work together and create the best community while we are all fighting and name calling.
I only hope the bickering back and forth stops; people listen to each others objections, and together, as a community work out the solution.
Cut the amount you are requesting, eliminate some of the excess things in the building and just build a nice, safe, basic school where children are educated by teachers who can educate them and perhaps it will pass. Hopefully the next building levy is for a basic building and facilities and nothing that you are looking to show off because of how extravagant you can make it. If you want the excess, look for donations.
anonymous feb 4 1:06 pm Is right.Cut some of the price and dont try going green all at once.Like the geo thermal heat and cooling system.I am in the construction feild and I know that is high dollar heating and cooling.yeh it will pay for it self in 5 oor 10 years but that dont help the price to build the school.If you done away with all the fancy new stuff there wanting to put in this new school I bet you could cut the price by at least 20 percent.Another thing if miss reigle makes over $100,000 a year.What does the rest of the boaed make and why dont they take a pay cut to help pay for the new school?I not against a new school.I just think it can be done cheaper and payed for a differant way.The problem is trust.The school board has mis managed funds for so long that when some one who does no what there doing gets the job the people think oh well same old same old.
I believe dukeblackohio, that if a building is being financed by tax dollars, it has to use renewable energy as far as heating & cooling, as of today renewable energy being wind, solar and geothermal. I am not certain about this but fairly certain.
dukeblackohio, is your post supposed to not make sense?? Putting in a high cost HVAC system that PAYS FOR ITSELF in 5 or 10 years instead put in a cheaper on that runs on gas or electric that you continue to pay and pay and pay for utilities for the life of the building (which is 100 years around here). And how much is the superintendant of a district this size supposed to make so you will be happy??? Check out what Troy or Piqua or any other super makes. She is not under paid nor is she over paid. She makes exactly what that position for almost any district pays which is right around the 100,000 mark. And the board taking a pay cut to pay for this new building...are you kidding. The board is paid a flat amount plus so much per meeting. I do not know the exact amounts, but I would figure it comes to less than 2,000 a year. Being a board member is more about serving a cause not about making money. A new building is needed and a new building costs millions and millions. It is not going to be paid for by 8 or 10 or 110 people taking a pay cut. It has to be paid by the community making a commitment. You think all these people are being over paid, well look at how much your tax bill is for GCS and compare it to any other district around, you will see that us homeowners are UNDER paying compared to other districts
Charlie, I got the walking down the stairs thing. I was trying to show the absurdity of his statement. His logic was flawed. As for arrogant. Yes, I know I came across that way. Until now, that was my intent. It was to accentuate my point. If in fact feelings were hurt, that was NOT my intent. For that I apologize. I can take constructive criticism. But WAKE UP PEOPLE! Some of your excuses are well below what I as a long term resident can tolerate. If you blog here things totally unreasonable then you should expect to get spanked for it. We don't live in a Doe, Doe Bird society! (I'm really a lovable and sweet guy. Cough). Not for the sake of arrogance but to kick some people in the ass and make them REALLY think about what they are saying. If they would think, before posting and meet the challenge, work at it and they might really might come up with something useful. Make no mistake I do not whine. If you think so than you need to re-read my entries. Why is it when someone points to a whining comment, that person (the whiner)says nothing, but the critic is a whiner also. My comments are straight forward and not coddling. I try not to address anything but ideas that are absurd and need to be challenged. Ideas with merit even opposing ideas warrant respect. People who for years only cry and complain also should be heard ...they should not be catered to. There needs to be some middle ground here. Some comments are so ungrounded in fact and unreasonable they need, In my humble opinion to be punted. If you noticed, I never approached any reasonable comment with any kind of negativism. I do not believe anyone will change their position if we are just nice to them, here. Thinking people need challenges and will either choose to expand their horizons or stay stuck where they are. There have been some very well stated comments. There also have been comments that are totally off the planet, ie., the inference that the benefit for the children walking down three flights of stairs to go to the bathroom somehow justifies not doing anything about our shared dilemma. So I will try to reign it in, but I need you help. Please do not make wild unsubstantiated comments or just plain selfish statements and expect me to buy into your flagrant misuse of fact. Enjoy , this is as nice as I get. It hurts. X-MAN
Duke, It is not the superintendent's responsibility to take a cut to pay for anything. When you get your PhD you will command a 100K salary also. When your boss needs to invest in a piece of equipment do you take a pay cut? X-MAN
yeh x man how about buying the land this new school is going to be built on.I didnt say any thing about miss reigle mis managing money but the school board in general from 25 years ago til now.I know miss reigle is trying her best to straighten out the mess she was left with.The bottom line is the levy didnt pass so find another way and find a way where not just the property owners are the only ones paying for it.
Duke, I may be wrong but it is my understanding the funds for the land purchase were not funds that were to be used for repair or other purposes. Can someone help me out on this? X-MAN
Once upon a time there was a lottery. Ah! now we won't have to worry about school ever again. How about limiting the winner to one or two million and taking care of of our schools like we were promised.
To X-MAN: It is my observation that the funds were used to buy land, parking it into an asset, and keeping the teacher's union from getting it for more pay raises. If so, it was an intelligent move. Most people do not realize the strains put on school funds. A school is a house divided against itself. Unions in government service are generally a very bad thing. Besides continually demanding wage increases, they successfully work against the elimination of bad teachers and resist making money-saving changes. Of course administrators are not perfect either, but schools have been allowed to evolve into providing a poor education while requiring ever more money to do it. There are certainly many more reasons than the teachers' union that begat this mess, but it is the most culpable.
Ah.., Anonymous 7:01 AM, once upon a time, long before the lottery, our politicians gave birth to the Ohio income tax which also was going to be the saviour of the schools. And it would have been had the damned politicians not bled the receipts for every other purpose under the sun. Today, that income tax generates over 40% of Ohio's total tax income which mostly pays for education and medicade. A man who wants to be Governor proposes to end this tax, but says not how he would replace the funding. Many people are preparing to vote for him. We are indeed a stupid people.
Horace G., I agree. The union in this case and most others bred ineptness. They become a powerful negative force pushing against common sense and effective use of resources. There have been more that one instance when someone should have lost their job and the union and/ or an emasculated superintendent or principal were too lazy to act. These folks went on to be a thorn in the side of progress in their respective school buildings. One is just a pain to everyone. I do not how this person does this person's job with this person in everyone's business. I do disagree with the statement "the schools have been allowed to evolve into providing a poor education..." Only if you are including Greenville Schools as a whole. Greenville schools do have their problems in this area with individual teachers. But as a whole we have very dedicated teachers who spend many late hours at the school and at home working for the benefit of the children. Yes, I know of some who get to school at the last minute and always seem to leave ASAP. These are the same ones who when something new is introduced they either try to block it of call the union trying to get them to act against it. Makes you wonder.
I had not idea. How does the union get into funds set aside for something else? Is there a source of reference where I can validate? That is a pretty big piece of pie for me to swallow without a second source. No offense. X-MAN
In My opinion. Now is the Time for Change of Leadership. Susie Riegle sent the children of Greenville to school friday Feb.5, 2010, with full knowledge that a severe snow warning was issued for the area. Getting in a half day of school was more important than the childrens safety. Riegle's poor decision could of turned tragic, when a bus lost control and turned sideways on state route 502 west and many buses were stuck taking home children in level 2 and level 3 snow emergency conditions. Riegle should be held accountable and reprimanded for her lack of judgment. It should be crystal clear by now, that Riegle lacks common sense and real world judgment skills. So the tax payers must pay Keith's wrecking service's bill for Riegle's incompetence. Add that to the $22,000 for the special election and send the invoice to Susie Riegle for payment or deduct it from her salary.
Does your employer deduct from your pay for every mistake that you make? Most likely not. Get off the kick of stating every thing you can think of that is negative towards Ms. Riegle being monetarily deducted from her pay. If an employer deducted money every time an employee made a mistake, the employee would be paying their employer for coming to work. It is hard to understand how an article about the school levy has now gotten so far off topic. Quit bashing everyone and participate in being part of the solution, not the problem!
I believe at this point, we, the "yes" voters should put all our attention to the people whom did not vote. If we can get them to vote with us, we will be much farther ahead than wasting time with the negative folks. Why fuel their fire?
anonymous feb 5 4:10..... should every other super in the county also be in this same secenario. Everyone went to school that morning.... it was not snowing and did not snow at that time. How many times is 6 inches called for and we get 1. You would have school called off 15 times a winter with you running the place, however the state allows you 5. You would be the one complaining about Ms Riegle on June 10th when the kids are still making up days saying she should not have canceled so many days last winter when they were only calling for snow and nothing happened... lets fire her because she canceled school for no reason and now its summer and they still have to be in class
Anonymous February 6, 2010 10:54 AM, no not everyone went to school that day. Franklin- Monroe never did. I also think Arcanum, and Tri-Village did not either. I do agree with you. I thought it was kind of strange for the schools to close before any snow hit the ground. Its a judgement call and no matter what the decision is, somebody is going to bitch.
I think alot of the no votes were not singled out as no for this levy, but as a cumulative response to taxes as a whole. There are a mass of people is this country that have lost faith in the system, with the on set of massive spending at the federal level we're seeing today. Then the current projected budget gets announced and will result in 4.3 BILLION dollars in defecit spending PER DAY. Buried in this bill are the details.... capital gains tax increases from the present 15% to 39%. Almost all tax brackets will increase, although politicians will say it isn't an increase, it is just falling back to past rates by letting some tax cuts expire. Result--more taxes for most Americans... more of your hard earned money missing from your paycheck.
The BOE also seems to be unsure of a true future vision for GCS. Remember in 2003, GCS was about to fall off the map if the community did not provide a new Per-K thru 5 building... hmmmm, fast forward seven years and now it's a 5 thru 8 building?
I just believe it will be very difficult to lure the passage of this levy with a mass of people "running scared" from the unknowns that we are seeing from the shining city on hill...
GCS Alumni. I don't recall 2003 levy being promoted as need to keep community from falling off the map.
What was good about that levy was it was phase 1 of 2 to address facility needs for the district over the next 30-50 years. There was a plan.
I do fully agree with all your other statements regarding taxes and the cumulative effect of the unknown that people are in no mood to say yes to any tax increase. No matter the merit of the request.
Back to the bus accident on Friday....none of the other county schools closed for the entire day. They ALL had early dismissal! The snow started earlier than predicted.
The people have spoken.
ReplyDeleteIt is sad to say but everytime a levy was turned down in the past the school would get a new superentendent. It is not looking good for Susie.
ReplyDeleteIf Greenville cannot pass a "sneak attack" special election levy, one will not pass until the school board and administration face a house cleaning. Expect another one by Feb 2011 (and the administration praying for snow).
ReplyDeleteThis was no reflection on Ms. Reigle. It was rather a reflection on the majority of the community.
ReplyDeleteThis was no sneak attack--they wouln't shut up about it. Too much ego???
ReplyDeleteThis was a reflection on Ms. Reigle and the school board.
ReplyDeleteIam glad to see that people have cast there vote. we are paying enough taxes. they need to figure out we the people that are paying taxes are tappped out. we are cuting out extra items maybe they need to do the same. quit having special elections like the one that i have heard of in august for the school levy. the signs going to say now should be the time. after another 20,000 + for the election . people need to stick together and speak up at city meeting and school meeting enough is enough.
ReplyDeleteI think a 56.6 percent NO.I would re think my strategy before I tried again.
ReplyDeleteThis was not a bad reflection on the superintendent or the school board. It's a reflection on the bad economy, and it sucks that our schools and children have to pay for it. My son is in the Greenville school system and I very much respect Ms. Riegle. It seems that people in this community think that the answer to this whole issue is to move away and put your child into one of the surrounding schools, and that's sad. Whenever the Greenville School System tries to do something to improve the schools for the better it is always turned down by the people in this community.
ReplyDeleteI just hope there are 2,932 people at our next school board meeting with suggestions.
ReplyDeletePeople were flabbergasted when the last levy passed. A lot of people didn't think they needed to bother getting out to vote. This time around they apparently decided they needed to get up and say no. And say no they did! This was not even close for a special election. Something will have to change for a levy for the new school to pass.
ReplyDeleteYour right, the people have spoken. We pay way to much in school tax. I think we pay the most taxes except for almost every other district around. Come on people. I don't want to pay anymore than I have to, but look around at what people around here pay. My taxes are about 1600 a year, but the same type house I have in the Brookville or Northmont district I would be paying two almost three times this amount. No one likes paying taxes, but we really have it easy compared to others. We won't have the opportunity to get a large chunk of state money for this project for much longer. If you really think this is just a big money grab to be wasted, go look for yourself. Quite listening to all the blow hards on both sides....LOOK FOR YOURSELF at the age, shape, and quality of south school and the jr. high. Responsible spending has allowed these building to be used well beyond what they should be, but don't believe me...LOOK FOR YOURSELF. Now was the time, but soon HAS to be the time.
ReplyDeleteThose buildings have not been kept at the level of excellence that Greenville students have deserved. There are similar schools in other communities in pristine condition. Take care of what have or you may get what you deserve.
ReplyDeleteMiss Reigle is doing an awesome job. Sorry to see that the voters can't do some good for the community and our kids.
ReplyDeleteWonderful solution 10:03......geeez
ReplyDeleteName some 80-100 year old school buildings in pristine conditions.... I want to see them for myself
ReplyDeleteI didn't want any new taxes either, just like all of you, but its not about me.. its about our kids, their safety and their education. This is not Susie Riegle's problem - this is A GREENVILLE PROBLEM! Come on greenville do what is right for our future!
ReplyDeleteIt is a sad day for Greenville citizens in two ways. First the school levy failed and second only 34.4% of registered voters (5,183 out of 15,050) exercised their right to vote. Unfortunately this just shows that a very large majority of our citizens do not care. Unfortunately we should all care that the levy failed and we most certainly should care enough to go vote. For those that were against the levy the mind set is, “we cannot afford more taxes.” Well did those that voted “no” just happen to think that the poor condition of our schools is a direct reflection of our poor local economy? Most all citizens would agree that Greenville needs more new businesses to locate here. Well guess what? New businesses are not going to locate in a community that does not care or does not have pride in their schools. Also guess what? If new businesses would locate here in Greenville they would absorb some of the tax burdens by paying taxes into the school system and community. New schools are an essential element to attracting new businesses. New businesses in turn will benefit our schools and community. You can accept this reality or choose to ignore it. If you choose to ignore it, Greenville will continue to struggle. If you choose to accept it and vote next time to support our schools with new facilities, Greenville will rebound and thrive. The choice this time was “no, we want Greenville to struggle.” What about next time? The choice will be yours again. My hope is that citizens will accept the reality that we need and must support our schools. Now is the time to support Greenville City Schools more than ever!
ReplyDeleteHow about Memorial Hall or the Library… I believe they are over 80 to 100 years old?
ReplyDeleteIt’s time to find an alternative way to fund the schools like sales tax. Folks are tired of it constantly being placed on the property owners. Yes, you would think that would affect renters also, but with Greenville’s push on low income apartments, many are paid by Metropolitan.
In my opinion the school board does not have the best credibility within the community. With the mess over the land purchase and special elections, they are going to have to repair confidence in the community.
Lastly the economy has taken a real toll on this community. A lot of folks are struggling just to make ends meet. Now was not the Time.
Some of these comments are pathetic. "Sad day for Greenvile" and "so few voted." Come off it, people, and try to learn something from this. Look at the statistics from the last special election Greenvile held for a levy in May. Only 31.6%. The percentages for this election went UP (34.4%). Last election - 2443 for. This election - 2251 for. What does that tell you? It tells you that people supporting it last time around were not supporting this time around! So GCS needs to look into why that is and realize that it doesn't matter if they put it on another ballot - the people of Greenville WILL NOT SUPPORT IT IN THIS MANNER! They are going to have to look at other options to try and bring back into the fold those that defected for this election. Try a sales tax! Try an income tax! Try pay-to-play! Try selling cupcakes! I don't care what you try, just try something else! But don't insult the people of Greenville by putting basically the same levy back on the ballot within the next year. It will just go down even harder.
ReplyDeleteTo Feb 2 10:13 pm
ReplyDeleteVan Cleve 6th grade building in Troy, built 1914. This is a system where the board office rapairs what they have. I personally have been in that building when my wife tought there before it was turned into the 6th grade building. Forest & Kyle are two other examples where the board has taken care of older buildings. Greenville can do it too.... So take a road trip to these schools and please report back.
Ok folks here we go. You got what you asked for. We are tired of every aspect of the government taking advantage of the small group of people who pay taxes in this country. We spoke and "Enough is Enough"! In fact that is what my signs will say that I will order by the semi load for our next sneak election.
ReplyDeleteJohn I agree! You want it... lets do it with a sales tax so those welfare people take it (you know were) along with us. Do you realize how many of them get that Metropolitian and have their (working able) boyfriends living with them who may or may not work, but do cheat the system. Thats the same government that runs our schools. Why would we think it would be different. Lets fix some things in this country before we think the money grows on trees again.
Before more of you complain about your current tax burden, I'd like to share some facts.
ReplyDeleteThe school district income tax for Greenville is 0.50%. All of the other districts in the county are 0.75 or even 1.50%
For 2008, the total property tax millage for Greenville was 33.40. This ranked Greenville as 522nd highest of 615 school districts in the state.
(Source: ohio department of taxation)
I do not like paying taxes. I get upset at how most of my tax dollars, especially federal income tax, get wasted. I did not, however, have any difficulty voting "yes" for this tax levy/bond issue.
For me, it boils down to this: There are few things as important to me as my children and their future. It is important enough that I am willing to prioritize this ahead of many things in my life even if it means making some financial sacrifice.
I know that there are some in this community who voted "no" because they are struggling to keep a roof over their heads and food on the table. I certainly don't blame you. I can only imagine I would do the same thing.
I suspect that most who voted "no" certainly could have afforded the cost of the levy. They voted "no" because they are too selfish to place anyone's future ahead of their comfort. You enjoy being able to eat out whenever you like. You want to make sure that when the next hot gadget hits the stores(maybe even an iPad), you can buy yourself one or two. You love the 46" televison in your living room and maybe want to get another for the bedroom. Those of you who voted "no" to maintain your very comfortable lifestyle, you probably deserve the miserable life you are buying for yourself.
Here is the problem...The economy is bad. City government contributed to the loss of new business coming to town because of mistakes made. The same good old boys have been running things for a long time. Rumors of misused funds based on ignorance of the facts and the public's misunderstanding of how things work financially have bred mistrust. This fueled by actual screw-ups in hiring for example, superintendents of the past, (EXCLUDING Susie R.)in ignoring their failure to do their job maybe watch TV or take multiple 4 day weekends, for years at a time again rightfully caused mistrust. Ours is an aging community with many on fixed incomes. The attitude of "I don't have any children in school" also contributes to a NO vote. Unfortunately, our town is dying a slow and painful death with no real influx of new families in large part to the failure of residents to support the schools. Our teachers do an excellent job in teaching and raising children who have parents who think it is the school's job to do so. These parents never show up for parent teacher conferences or IEP meetings. Let their child get in trouble and it is all the teacher's fault. These teachers stay at school hours after school preparing for the next day. They bring work home nearly every night to benefit the children because they do not have adequate planning time to do the job they need to do at school. Many spend hundreds of their own dollars every year to purchase needed supplies the school system can't afford to purchase and often parents refuse to buy for their children. Yet these same "refusenics" have money for cigs, beer and expensive cell phones, video games and the big cable TV packages. Let us quit hiding in the darkness and admit that our teachers are top quality and dedicated individuals who honestly care about our children. Let us admit that a lot of our public is living in ignorance as to the finances of this community's schools. Let us (yes again) pull our heads out of the dark crevasse and see many of our buildings are falling apart and replacement would cost initially but would pay for themselves in utility, repair and other savings. I have privately surveyed many good citizens of this community to find old grudges and ignorance are keeping otherwise good people from making informed decisions. People angry with people long gone letting this anger influence their vote. Increased taxes are a real threat to everyone involved. No one wants to pay more than they have to. I understand that but no one is breaking down the doors to buy houses in Greenville as the values drop with each levy that does not pass. You wanted facts...now you got the facts. Any of them make you think..I hope so! Look at the decline of property values in and out of Greenville. Haven't you figured out yet that they are tied to the real or perceived value of the local school system? Go to Kettering, Oakwood, and Beavercreek to name a few. Good schools high property values and yes they have taxes that people do not mind paying because of the advantages of living in those communities. Houses are selling in those communities people are breaking down doors to live there. Why not here? (See above). It is easy to find reasons not to do something. There is no easy way out of the situation we all share. Anyone can make excuses not to support something. What takes courage is making a tough decision. One that might involve short term sacrifice for long term benefit. It is sadly obvious that people in this community haven't figured that out yet. Please wake me when they do. Over the years that I have been a resident here I have watched the drain of life blood flow from what was a thriving proud community. Very sad.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous at 9:54- agreed. I now live in a southern Ohio school district (but still own property in Greenville and thus would have been affected)- we live in the same value house as we did in Greenville. Our Tax Bill in Greenville, $963/half. Our Tax Bill here: $1835. most of the difference- school tax. Our school district here, in turn is in the top percentages in the state.
ReplyDeleteI do agree with what someone said in a post that the tax burden should be shared in a manner that affects all- not just home owners though.
Something needs to be done with the school buildings. Those who voted "no"- would like to hear suggestions.
these schools are in better shape then where i went..has long they are learning and getting a good edu thats good enough
ReplyDeleteAnonymous February 2, 2010 10:44 PM, You really don't know what your talking about. I am so sick of hearing you and other idiots talk about a new building and how it will improve the childrens education and bring all these jobs to Greenville.
ReplyDeleteWhat were they going to use? magic bricks? Once again try to understand, It takes way more then a new building to make a great school system. Business owners or corps. that look to locate in an new city, look way more into the school system then just the building. They don't say well they are at the bottom in the rankings of their county, but wow look at that new building, that new building makes it alright. You have to improve from within first.
Way to use the pea brain this town uses when thinking every issue through.School buildings are just that buildings,however how much better would your attitude towards learning and bettering yourself be if your building was something your were proud of and enjoyed being in.Yes taxes are high but there are other ways around only property owners paying the brunt of this .I agree with fix what is broken or out of date but fix it right no temporary patches.I am a homeowner and a parent of two just starting there years of school I will not let them down wish everyone else in this town felt the same.
ReplyDeletei cant aford my taxes now anyways,you want a new school, you can pay my taxes
ReplyDeleteJohn,
ReplyDeleteAs it was stated in an earlier post, sales tax is set by the county commissionaires and state legislators. The two buildings you spoke of had multi-million dollar renovations.
This is a sad day! There is absolutely nothing wrong with Ms. Riegle! Greenville is a better school because of her. You have obviously not met her. Don't hide behind ANONYMOUS if you are going to bash someone!
ReplyDeleteI have a son that lives in florida and no one pays a city income tax in Lakeland and they also have no state income tax or state school tax.
ReplyDeleteYet they have very nice schools. They do have a county school system. That alone saves the people a bundle of money. Wake up darke county, all the schools are hurting, if not now they will be down the line.
It's a great day not to live in Greenville!
ReplyDeleteThe 'blame" if that's what you can call it, is with whoever (the state allottment from Darke County) decided to raise Real Estate taxes by galloping amounts right before this issue came up. Voters who saw their home valuations go down also saw their taxes increase (that's one way to raise money)! If the school board erred at all it was with the timing of the special election---they hoped most conservative voters would be in Florida, or would not venture out in the February cold. Someone should have looked at the RE taxes calendar.
ReplyDeleteSolutions?
ReplyDeleteIt does not make sense to have school buildings, books and teachers idle for almost 3 months every year. This is a hold-over from agrarian days. Year round use of these assets make sense (I can hear teachers howling---including my teacher-daughter) might even increase test scores.
Parents: be an auxillary to your child's teacher, discover what the child is being taught in school and expand that topic at home,(books at the library can help---family trips are a super chance to educate your own child). In the first place, just showing interest in what the kid is learning is a great influence.
I agree with Barb (7:58 AM)..... The timing was extremely unfortunate!
ReplyDeleteFor the childen in this town to be educated in a sfe enviroment is key, are they??? What if another accident happens and someone gets hurt??? The schools are trying to listen and start smaller than originally planned. Guve them some credit! They are not just looking to take our money, they are trying to help the children and the community! Cuts have been made and still they need help. If the next one doesnt pass we will have to pay the whole amount whne it is time to build. They do not have a back up building anymore and the cost to build will only go up in the future. Screw your heads on tight and think about the future!!! Work with the schools and see for yourself what they need, don't assume ( assuming makes you look stupid!) And for Mrs. Reigle, you are doing a great job! In case you missed it...I VOTED YES!
ReplyDeleteTheir must be alot of rich people in the school district. I'm on a fixed income and my property taxes just went up over 600.00 dollars. I'm going to have a very hard time paying these new taxes on my property. Then if this levy wouldv'e passed my taxes wouldv'e been another 200.00 dollars. With that kindv'e jump I might lose my property.
ReplyDeleteWho's paying for a special election in August????
ReplyDeleteMaybe Ms. Riegle can pay for a special election out of her 100,000+ salary.....
ReplyDeleteI suppose someone will have to be hurt or killed by debris from the deteriorating buildings before the people of this town wake up. The defeat of this levy only reinforces the image of Greenville as an ignorant, backwater town. Why do you think business doesn't locate here? It's all about the reputation of the area. I would move away in a second if I wasn't stuck with property that I probably can't sell.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous
ReplyDeleteFebruary 3, 2010 11:15 AM
Maybe Ms. Riegle can pay for a special election out of her 100,000+ salary.....
You are ignorant. Try her job... If you have the education. Which I'm guessing you don't. Do what she does... If she makes 100,000. She is under paid. You have no idea what she does!
Thought I would expound on what I said earlier. Apparently John H and a few others either can't comprehend that the trouble is not with Susie R. "Majic Bricks John"...I guess I know what a conversation about renovation and saving the once proud city of Greenville will extract from you. Did you really read what you wrote? Now the Florida thing...If we had their weather and recreational opportunities we could have their economy. that aside I have not heard any constructive solutions to the problem. To you who pay $600 in taxes, I respect that. I pay 5x that amount and I voted YES. Why...because if you would re-read my first entry with an open mind, you might see WE ARE WORTH IT. Mr "Who is paying for the special election?, and Mr "Maybe Ms.Riegle should pay for it"...You still have your heads in that dark place. Be careful sitting down. I agree the powers that be shafted the election prospects with the latest tax hike. If they would have waited you would have constructed some conspiracy to have did it form you until after the election. Build some character people. Listen if you want services you have to pay taxes. If you don't want to pay taxes move to Mexico or Haiti. No school taxes there. Some of you do get it. I am pleased that you do. It appears that the least informed still don't get it. They are waiting for their new car, or the government to buy them a house as promised. "Mr Year round schooling"...Does not work. Please re-read the previous statement. Been tried and DOES NOT WORK. Besides, if there was year round school the breaks of two and three weeks would still equal 3 months vacant. School is in session approximately 180 days. Does not matter how you cut it up. Get with the program! To all who read this...If you are going to criticize the schools, Administration or my ramblings...Do it with facts. I do not want to debate feelings or rumor. Give me facts. I do not play well with whiners, some of whom who do not know enough not to eat the yellow snow. X-MAN
ReplyDeleteGood job, XMAN
ReplyDeleteTo the 6th grade 80 year old Troy building, 2 questions.... 1. how much are they paying in their taxes? Are they above the 552nd district that we are. And 2. Should I go look at that building before or after I go through their new school that just opened up last year. And the library is a beautiful building that just had how much put into it and Memorial Hall... isn't that a part of the school system. And to others and why don't you do it like Florida or make a sales tax.... you think the school system wouldn't pursue that avenue if they could??? You CAN NOT increase sales tax for the school system in the state of Ohio. Any yes Florida does not have a lot of the taxes we have, but they have a lot of others we also don't have. Want to build a little shed in your back yard in Florida... see how much it will cost you in something called an "impact fee"....trust me, it becomes a very expensive shed.
ReplyDeleteTo Anonymous: You seem to want to what you say Whine, then state your name in the "Facts" that you are given. This problem is not about Susie Riegle or administration, it is about the people of our community. I am a business owner and home owner and lived here all my life - my kids graduated from greenville and I have grandkids attending greenville. Yes, My taxes went up with the assessments and yes they would go up with the levy - however, I BELEIVE IN OUR KIDS, MY KIDS, YOUR KIDS.... ON AND ON - THAT IS REALLY WHAT THIS IS ABOUT. Greenville will at some point build a new middle school - we could have built it with the states help or we will pay for it 100% later..... I'm curious to al the anonymous - did you vote on Tuesday?
ReplyDeleteKathy, I can't tell if you are in agreement with me or not. You seem to start off attacking me ..Did I understand you want me to state my name? then you seem to agree with me. Yes, this is about the children and much more. Again for those of you who tuned in late if you read my first email I stated plenty of fact. I refer you to Feb 3, 2:19 am. As for your "at some point we will have to build a new middle school..." I totally agree. I also mentioned I did vote and I voted yes. Hope this helps.
ReplyDeleteX-MAN
John H. needs to run for school board.
ReplyDeleteI’m sorry X-MAN, I can’t seem to find your previous comment which you said has all of the facts in it.
ReplyDeleteSo far I have not seen to many facts, only opinions and conjectures.
I think he should run also, since he appears to know EVERYTHING. Including, we don't know what we are talking about. I wonder how it feels to be that intuitive and well informed? Maybe he could share some of those magic bricks with us.
ReplyDeleteX-MAN
John, Void of facts, do you mean like your posting? Have someone help you, John. I can wait. SEE ENTRY DATED, F E B R U A R Y 3RD, 12:19 AM. I did not sign it as I only intended to write one comment. SOOoo do not look for X-MAN at the B O T T O M. Just the date and time. If you lived here long enough you can easily check out those pesky little elusive facts. If you need any more help John, I'm here for you.
ReplyDeleteX-MAN
I need some of the magic brick and maybe i can start growing a money tree in my back yard . my kid think money grows on trees so does GSC. Does anyone no when the next election is are the just going to keep the signs up and make it next week. need to get the word out soon as someone knows. you can just about bet it wont be in may or november.
ReplyDeleteLT
The worst part of all of this is sitting here reading these comments, and seeing how no one is offering to help do anything to make Greenville or the schools a more positive place to be (ie. running for school board, county commissioner, etc).
ReplyDeleteI, for one, have a job - but I also make the time to do some volunteer work in the schools (yes I have a family to take care too). I would bet a good amount of money that most of you posting here - even if you have kids in the system currently, or kids that went through the system - have never taken the time to be in any of the buildings to see what goes on day to day, or have even spoken to Susie R. or any of the board members.
I can also say that I know of 5 families in my little area that have said that they are now considering putting their kids in Versailles this fall. That's such a shame because Greenville just loses more.
A new building would not bring more jobs. It will not make the current teachers better (even though 99% of them are great). It would not make the studnets or families any different. But, the potential savings for the district are great. The potantial of having people move into the area does have light. The future is what we all have to look at....and even if our pockebooks are stretched to the max, we live in Ohio and this is how Ohio public schools are funded. If you have a better idea - than call the state board of education and voice your opinion there. Call your state representitive.
Next election will likely be August.
ReplyDeletei get why some voted no. though I am willing to guess that 90% voted "no" for the wrong reasons. I completely agree that non-property owners should NOT be allowed to vote on an issue that imposes a tax on property owners.
ReplyDeleteit seems that a 1/2% sales tax incorporated in the bounds of the school district would assure that all ends pay proportional to their residency in the community.
I don't agree with the people whose sole argument is "fixed income." When they had kids in school- they would have done what they could to make sure their kids education was in in the utmost. And yes, while they were in school years ago- someone else had to sacrifice so that they could have an education in a facility that was relevant to the time.
Troy has maintained their buildings because their taxes have been appropriate to the size and scope of their district for years. 84% of the state pays more for their taxes than Greenville.
It is just sad that most of the "NO" voters have voted that way because they have no "skin in the game" - fixed incomes - or worse, out of vendetta. this has nothing to do with the supt, nothing to do with the board. You can vote them all out and once your "chosen" come in and see the size and scope of the problems that the average voter NEVER sees- you'll be calling for their head too.
Below is a paraphrase from Emerson’s writings.
ReplyDelete“You can pay back only seldom but you can always pay forward.”
We had the opportunity yesterday to invest in our schools, community, youth, and most importantly our future. Unfortunately the majority voice was “No!” The only way our to improve our future is if we decide it is important enough now to pay forward. Paying forward requires sacrifices today so that the generations to come may benefit. What a legacy we could start here in Greenville by paying forward! Think about it.
I think the sentiment of those opposed could be summarized like this:
ReplyDeleteThese school tax levies will be unfair until they find a way to tax everyone but me.
Man, it looks like the city of greenville is sold out of tissues with everyone crying, the people spoke leave it rest
ReplyDeleteWe can leave it rest and let our community continue on the downward spiral or step up and decide to make a positive difference.
ReplyDeleteA new Facebook group has been formed for those who support the construction of the new middle school. This recent defeat only stalls the inevitable. The eventual construction of this school means everybody in the community wins.
ReplyDeleteIn Facebook search "Greenville, Ohio WILL have a new middle school."
Richard the people did not speak. You are a fool and childish!
ReplyDeleteNegative, negative, negative !!!! Success starts with a positive attitude. For those of you who are complaining need to come up with a solution and become more active in the community. Posting negative comments on Darke Journal will not change anything.
ReplyDeleteIf I'm a fool and childish then scroll back up and look at the final vote! I am tired of all the crying,did the kids go to school today? I will answer that yes they did there still learning like usual, why is it every time something doesn't go greenville's way it's a disaster, every school district has had the same problem get off your high horse greenville and come back to the real world!
ReplyDeleteIf the state and county commiish decide the sales tax.Wouldnt it be a easier battle to win if they tried getting a sales tax increase?X man if you have all these facts you talk about why didnt you post them on here before the election?I think your full of B.S. myself.All the goverment agencies in this city needs to be tore down and rebuilt.They have screwed it up for so long there is no way to fix it without starting over.
ReplyDeleteSusie Riegle worked hard and long to educate this community about WHY NOW IS THE TIME... Carla Surber, Dave Peltz and John McGreevey and others worked long and hard too, they went the extra mile for OUR students and OUR community. I appreciate all their hard work and thank them for being LEADERS. We've never had a better or more dedicated team in place.
ReplyDeleteWhen the bond is up for another vote they will have my full support once again.
X-MAN returns to answer all your impish and naive questions. First Richard, scrolling back to the final vote means nothing. Ignorance also elected certain government officials who I won't bring into this blog by name. Yes you are childish and foolish and I have heard more intelligent and compelling arguments on the playground. Duke, I did not discover this den of intellectual exchange until this morning at 12 am. As for the BS...I and listen closely..never have to lie or call names to make a point as I use my head as more thatn a hat rack. Facts are facts and if you got off your lazy 6 and investigated things you would be able to access this information as I have over time by listening to the people in power in this town. Less mouth and more ears = knowledge. Try it you will like it! Glad I could help you boys out. I have a box of Kleenex if yo feel the need as I am a sharing person.
ReplyDeleteX-MAN
I voted yes. Our taxes here are much lower than neighboring counties. I am constantly reviewing my budget. Others should do the same. For those of you that cannot afford your home, put it for sale and buy something you can afford.
ReplyDeleteI look forward to voting yes for the schools in our next election.
I have heard enough of the negativity.
To the 2/3/10 8:27 PM post just how dumb do you think we are in Greenville? I want to know which one of the 4 wrote that comment or did you have your secretary write it for you. If it was not one of you, it had to be a school board member, what a JOKE!!!!!
ReplyDeleteI just wish the shool board would be honest with the public. They are wanting a levy passed to build a middle school, next they will want another levy for new elementary schools then another levy to build a new high school. Then they will realize they don't have enough money to maintain them and it will take more levies to pay for the upkeep. They haven't spent the money to maintain the buildings in the past so why would they do it for new buildings. Leave it for the next board to worry about. It's not that bad yet.
ReplyDeletehey x man why dont you do everbody a favor and unfind this site.people like you is why it is so hard to do anything in this town.It is allso why this town and county and country is going down hill.So save your high and mighty B.S. for someone that wants to here it cause from what Ive read on here no body wants to here from a comic book joke.You should be a politician you would fit write in.
ReplyDeleteEvery time I think I have heard it all 10:12 post in this case tops it all. Yes, we will have to eventually replace most of the buildings. Duh. Natural wear and tear and the fact "nothing lasts forever" will take its toll, eventually. How can you say "they haven't spent the money to maintain the buildings in the past..." Did you pull that unfounded and easily dis-proven statement out of your hiney? How can you spew such nonsense?? Do you really believe that?
ReplyDeleteX-MAN
This has been a pretty sad outburst by those pining for the levy to pass. When the levy passed in May, there were all of 8 comments on this site, no flood of whining about it having PASSED! Kroger just had to place an order for an extra shipment of Huggies because so many diapers need changed!
ReplyDeleteSeriously, move on and learn from the failure of this levy. Look to improving the prospects of passing the next levy instead of blaming everyone who voted against it.
http://www.darkejournal.com/2009/05/first-few-votes-are-in.html#comments
My question-Who helped pay for your education when you were children?
ReplyDeletePeople should really get out and tour the schools to see what the children are going to every day.
To dukeblackohio you really need to learn to spell! Did you go to Greenville, God I hope not?
ReplyDeleteYes I did.Have you ever herd of a typo I have seen a lot more than just mine pal so pass your judgement some where else
ReplyDeleteMaybe some of the 'no' voters could sit in a classroom at South School for a day. Plan ahead if you need to use the restroom because you will have to go down several flights of stairs to the basement. Be careful, the restrooms are 100 years old.
ReplyDeleteSusie Riegle is underpaid as she is doing 2 jobs for her salary. She takes care of the Special Education services which now saves the district that administrative salary. Susie has poured her heart and soul into this school district. She is seen at K-12 school functions in contrast to previous superintendents.
This election was not a 'sneak attack'. The information was put out into the community and she was available to answer your questions, TRUTHFULLY! If we don't accept the monies from the state it will only cost us more in the future when the buildings do not meet the needs of ALL students as required by the state department.
I am on a 'fixed income'too, but am willing to support the educational system as I have lived here all my life.
This is why I left Greenville and don't ever plan on coming back. I spent 13 years in the Greenville system, left to go to college and I'm obtaining a graduate degree now. I can count on one hand how many of my college educated frieds have returned to Greenville. We have all moved on to better places where the communities support the education of their children. Good luck to those of you who are still there and trying your best to help this generation of Greenville students, because my generation is gone and we're never coming back.
ReplyDeleteHow many homes here in grennville that are 100+ years old and have the same bathrooms they where built better back then they all do the same thing.and it is good for the kids to go down stairs and up stairs there are to many that just sit around playing video games. it would be nice to have a new car and to be proud of it and to show it off. if the bank wont give you the money because you have no job and you are using your unemployment to pay you bill no bank is going to give you what you need. the same story a new school will give me a job when a new business comes to town and my child is smarter because of the teachers teach better in a new school. look around darke county we dont have jobs like dayton or bellbrook and more people are moving away for those jobs.
ReplyDeleteTwo comments:
ReplyDeleteFirst to Feb. 3 at 10:12 PM. Great idea to it leave it for the next board to worry about? That is why the buildings are now so old because no board or administration in the past has worried about it. I give this board and administration credit for their hard work and vision to move forward in a positive direction. Just think if every board had your pitiful mindset and did not worry about it, it would never get accomplished.
Second to Feb. 3 at 11:25 PM. It is great that you left to go to college and are now obtaining a graduate degree. I sure hope you do not take your “I do not care attitude” to wherever you choose to live. Greenville must have given you a decent high school education since you were able to move onto college and graduate school. Who paid for you to go to high school here? It was citizens of Greenville that cared about your education. Therefore you may want to remember your past a little bit and be thankful and not so negative and judgmental. I graduated from Greenville and have applied my college degree right here in my hometown. I am being positive about Greenville and plan to continue to support proposed improvements for our schools and community.
People are moving away because of jobs yes, but they are also moving away because people in this town could care less about where the live. There is no pride about anything anymore, and the only thing people want to do is complain about everything. If you can do better then go get an education and fix it yourself.
ReplyDeleteLike the post 2/3/10 11:25 said, Greenville graduates are leaving this town and never coming back. I know i have. Until people in this town can grow up and face the facts, you will continue to lose quality people and the city will soon turn into a ghost town.
I tried to make the point that education has more to do with teachers and parents and less to do with shiney new buildings. If you take a look at this country's best colleges---some buildings are over 200 years old. It's what's IN the system, not what it looks like.
ReplyDeleteFacts:
ReplyDelete1) Sales tax is not an option allowed by state of Ohio at this time for a city school district to assess or request.
2) Schools have been supported. Let's quit complaining. An operating levy was passed last year for 3.9 mills.
3) The last request for buildings was 6 years ago. There has been no other request for buildings since then.
4) If the school board is the problem; why did the community re-elect 2 board members in November?
5) I voted for the levy 6 years ago. I did not for this one. And will not until a comprehensive plan for district needs is done and communicated.
6) District has not lost access to anything other than $1/2 million reimbursement for facade repairs to the Junior HS.
7) The thought of a 37 year bond needs to be reviewed. Maybe 25 year bond. The amount of interest cost may be no more for the district taxpayers even if stimulus funds not available.
Before you hammer me as old - I have 20 years left in my working career, have been active in community, youth programs, church life and commited to Greenville. I can afford the increase.
I do think that new and renovated buildings are needed for the district. But lets do it within a overall plan.
The people should look to fund the school with the same funding Bush used in No Child Left Behind.
ReplyDeleteTo the person who thinks it is a fitness advantage for children to walk down three flights of stairs to use the bathroom...your thoughts come from a pathetic place. Comparing one or two pristine older homes with our crumbling schools does not make sense. People stay in those homes because they want to. They take pride in them and invest in them to keep them in working order. Children in our schools have no choice. Walking down the stairs will keep them from playing video games. What a great system! I did not know they had a choice of playing video games or going to the bathroom. To the young person who moved away and will never return: Can't blame you. My children have chosen to go to where the opportunities are and unfortunately they are not here. Not that they don't love Greenville...There is really nothing to keep a young educated person in their town. Now for the 200 year old college buildings. They look great because they (the college community) pour millions of dollars into them every year to overhaul and maintain them. These colleges have a support system with endowment funds in the hundreds of millions. All we have is you. Education DOES have more to do with teachers than structure (and we are blessed with dedicated and talented teachers). but...when structure has gone from conducive to education to joining the other side we have a problem. In the long run it will be a MUST DO to replace these buildings. When that is done money will be saved overtime in many of the costs of utilities, repair and other areas. I know this is a difficult concept for some of you to comprehend. There is so much narrow mindedness and selfishness being displayed here. It seems the narrow mindedness comes from those who are least informed. Educate yourself on the facts not the junk you hear at Liar's tables, barbershops, and bars. Investigate. Get out from your TV and ask the tough questions and accept there are facts out there which conflict with you lock step opinions. Then come back with something to share that is factual and possibly constructive instead of all the belly aching. My be is the whiners do not volunteer at the schools. Most probably either don't have kids in school or if they do never attend meetings. Finally...Aren't you tired of the younger generation moving away from our town with our grandchildren instead of staying here and putting those children in our system? I know I am. The problem is not just in a building. It is the big picture. It has a snowball effect. Some of you need to learn to forgo immediate gratification for long term gains. Who cares if the levy will take 37 years. If we would have done this 6 years ago we would have only 31 now. The longer we wait the worse it will get. Construction costs are down. Funds are NOW available to help. I do not see a better time to act. Any improvement to the school system benefits EVERYONE in Greenville. If you don't like that maybe you should move. I hate Quitters oh yes and Whiners. Do something constructive. No whining is not constructive, sorry.
ReplyDeleteX-MAN
X-Man you are the one who is whining. Maybe instead of putting people down who did not support the levy, you should try encouraging them to see your side. I'm sure people will listen to you alot more this way. As soon as you start to down grade them, they will shut you out. Reading your post, you do sound pretty intelligent, but also very arrogant. About walking down the stairs to use the restroom. You missed the persons point. They did not say the children play video games in school. They were pointing out that kids spend too much time in front of them at home (at least thats how i read it). That the exercise does them good. Qiut being such an arrogant ass and maybe people will listen to you.
ReplyDeleteBut I would rather drink or smoke away that $9 a month on a home I don't own...oh wait if I don't own a home I don't have to pay the tax....nevermind.
ReplyDeleteTo Feb. 4 at 1:40 am:
ReplyDeleteI think you misunderstood my Feb. 3rd at 11:25 post.
I don't have an "I don't care" attitude towards the community at all. I enjoyed my time in Greenville, and I believe I received a quality education. What I was trying to state was that if the community doesn't support the school system as a whole, then it's going to lose a lot of people who went off to college. Why would I want to live in a community that doesn't support its school system?
The point I was trying to pass along was that the "it's fine the way it is" attitude that permeates everything in Greenville is driving away well educated people like myself and those who I graduated with. The general attitude of "gee I wish it were 1950 still" is one which will only push the younger generations, as well as employers, away from the city.
The attitute represented towards this measure by many of the people who have posted comments here, is a reflection of the community's attitute in general, which is "if it's not broke don't fix it, and if it is then complain about it as opposed to actually fixing it."
Any while I enjoyed my time in Greenville, and my time when I go back to visit family, I would rather live in a community that doesn't oppose tax measures which go to help the community.
I have read every comment on this page, and to be honest I’ll say on thing, people on both sides of the issue are sure passionate. There are very few facts given rather most are opinions with passion. The one notable fact, no one wants to give an inch on this issue of building a new school, and to make things worse, it has gotten to the point of name calling from both sides.
ReplyDeleteI moved here in 1965, and although we have many problems I still like it here. Over the years I have seen many changes, some good and some bad. Unfortunately our community is situated in a State which is not very business friendly, and what that means to us is the loss and hard to draw jobs in our area, couple that with a hard economic time, people and businesses are hurting.
I’ve raised my children and watched them grow up in this rural area and I am still seeing some of my grandchildren growing up here. As with any controversial project, we all need to work together and listen to each other, work through the problems and do what is best for our community. We will never be able to work together and create the best community while we are all fighting and name calling.
I only hope the bickering back and forth stops; people listen to each others objections, and together, as a community work out the solution.
Cut the amount you are requesting, eliminate some of the excess things in the building and just build a nice, safe, basic school where children are educated by teachers who can educate them and perhaps it will pass. Hopefully the next building levy is for a basic building and facilities and nothing that you are looking to show off because of how extravagant you can make it. If you want the excess, look for donations.
ReplyDeleteX-Man I like your no nonsense style! You cut through the smoke screen.
ReplyDeleteanonymous feb 4 1:06 pm Is right.Cut some of the price and dont try going green all at once.Like the geo thermal heat and cooling system.I am in the construction feild and I know that is high dollar heating and cooling.yeh it will pay for it self in 5 oor 10 years but that dont help the price to build the school.If you done away with all the fancy new stuff there wanting to put in this new school I bet you could cut the price by at least 20 percent.Another thing if miss reigle makes over $100,000 a year.What does the rest of the boaed make and why dont they take a pay cut to help pay for the new school?I not against a new school.I just think it can be done cheaper and payed for a differant way.The problem is trust.The school board has mis managed funds for so long that when some one who does no what there doing gets the job the people think oh well same old same old.
ReplyDeleteI believe dukeblackohio, that if a building is being financed by tax dollars, it has to use renewable energy as far as heating & cooling, as of today renewable energy being wind, solar and geothermal. I am not certain about this but fairly certain.
ReplyDeletedukeblackohio, is your post supposed to not make sense?? Putting in a high cost HVAC system that PAYS FOR ITSELF in 5 or 10 years instead put in a cheaper on that runs on gas or electric that you continue to pay and pay and pay for utilities for the life of the building (which is 100 years around here). And how much is the superintendant of a district this size supposed to make so you will be happy??? Check out what Troy or Piqua or any other super makes. She is not under paid nor is she over paid. She makes exactly what that position for almost any district pays which is right around the 100,000 mark. And the board taking a pay cut to pay for this new building...are you kidding. The board is paid a flat amount plus so much per meeting. I do not know the exact amounts, but I would figure it comes to less than 2,000 a year. Being a board member is more about serving a cause not about making money. A new building is needed and a new building costs millions and millions. It is not going to be paid for by 8 or 10 or 110 people taking a pay cut. It has to be paid by the community making a commitment. You think all these people are being over paid, well look at how much your tax bill is for GCS and compare it to any other district around, you will see that us homeowners are UNDER paying compared to other districts
ReplyDeleteIm sure everyone who has or is still working for government wages voted "Yes". Just like the General Motors workers, they are their own best customer.
ReplyDeleteGovernment employees are like the ones at GM. They are their own best customer.
ReplyDeleteCharlie, I got the walking down the stairs thing. I was trying to show the absurdity of his statement. His logic was flawed. As for arrogant. Yes, I know I came across that way. Until now, that was my intent. It was to accentuate my point. If in fact feelings were hurt, that was NOT my intent. For that I apologize. I can take constructive criticism. But WAKE UP PEOPLE! Some of your excuses are well below what I as a long term resident can tolerate. If you blog here things totally unreasonable then you should expect to get spanked for it. We don't live in a Doe, Doe Bird society! (I'm really a lovable and sweet guy. Cough). Not for the sake of arrogance but to kick some people in the ass and make them REALLY think about what they are saying. If they would think, before posting and meet the challenge, work at it and they might really might come up with something useful. Make no mistake I do not whine. If you think so than you need to re-read my entries. Why is it when someone points to a whining comment, that person (the whiner)says nothing, but the critic is a whiner also. My comments are straight forward and not coddling. I try not to address anything but ideas that are absurd and need to be challenged. Ideas with merit even opposing ideas warrant respect. People who for years only cry and complain also should be heard ...they should not be catered to. There needs to be some middle ground here. Some comments are so ungrounded in fact and unreasonable they need, In my humble opinion to be punted. If you noticed, I never approached any reasonable comment with any kind of negativism. I do not believe anyone will change their position if we are just nice to them, here. Thinking people need challenges and will either choose to expand their horizons or stay stuck where they are. There have been some very well stated comments. There also have been comments that are totally off the planet, ie., the inference that the benefit for the children walking down three flights of stairs to go to the bathroom somehow justifies not doing anything about our shared dilemma. So I will try to reign it in, but I need you help. Please do not make wild unsubstantiated comments or just plain selfish statements and expect me to buy into your flagrant misuse of fact. Enjoy , this is as nice as I get. It hurts.
ReplyDeleteX-MAN
Not sure I understood A 6:24 or 6:30
ReplyDeleteX-MAN
Duke, Could you give us an instance of the Board mismanaging funds?
ReplyDeleteX-MAN
Duke, It is not the superintendent's responsibility to take a cut to pay for anything. When you get your PhD you will command a 100K salary also. When your boss needs to invest in a piece of equipment do you take a pay cut?
ReplyDeleteX-MAN
Anonymous
ReplyDeleteFebruary 4, 2010 11:40 AM
I say BRAVO!
X-MAN
Anonymous
ReplyDeleteFebruary 4, 2010 1:06 PM
What kind of things might be considered excess?
walls without holes....
ReplyDeleteMost of the nay-sayers will not be convinced. Our only hope to get this thing passed is to find more yay-sayers.
ReplyDeleteLet your name, face and voice be seen and heard. Go to the Facebook Group, "Greenville, Ohio WILL have a new middle school."
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=318640593824&ref=ts
yeh x man how about buying the land this new school is going to be built on.I didnt say any thing about miss reigle mis managing money but the school board in general from 25 years ago til now.I know miss reigle is trying her best to straighten out the mess she was left with.The bottom line is the levy didnt pass so find another way and find a way where not just the property owners are the only ones paying for it.
ReplyDeleteDuke, I may be wrong but it is my understanding the funds for the land purchase were not funds that were to be used for repair or other purposes. Can someone help me out on this?
ReplyDeleteX-MAN
Once upon a time there was a lottery. Ah! now we won't have to worry about school ever again.
ReplyDeleteHow about limiting the winner to one or two million and taking care of of our schools like we were promised.
To X-MAN:
ReplyDeleteIt is my observation that the funds were used to buy land, parking it into an asset, and keeping the teacher's union from getting it for more pay raises. If so, it was an intelligent move.
Most people do not realize the strains put on school funds. A school is a house divided against itself. Unions in government service are generally a very bad thing. Besides continually demanding wage increases, they successfully work against the elimination of bad teachers and resist making money-saving changes. Of course administrators are not perfect either, but schools have been allowed to evolve into providing a poor education while requiring ever more money to do it. There are certainly many more reasons than the teachers' union that begat this mess, but it is the most culpable.
Ah.., Anonymous 7:01 AM, once upon a time, long before the lottery, our politicians gave birth to the Ohio income tax which also was going to be the saviour of the schools. And it would have been had the damned politicians not bled the receipts for every other purpose under the sun. Today, that income tax generates over 40% of Ohio's total tax income which mostly pays for education and medicade. A man who wants to be Governor proposes to end this tax, but says not how he would replace the funding. Many people are preparing to vote for him. We are indeed a stupid people.
ReplyDeleteI didn't see a government office get a union that didn't deserve it.
ReplyDeleteHorace G., I agree. The union in this case and most others bred ineptness. They become a powerful negative force pushing against common sense and effective use of resources. There have been more that one instance when someone should have lost their job and the union and/ or an emasculated superintendent or principal were too lazy to act. These folks went on to be a thorn in the side of progress in their respective school buildings. One is just a pain to everyone. I do not how this person does this person's job with this person in everyone's business. I do disagree with the statement "the schools have been allowed to evolve into providing a poor education..." Only if you are including Greenville Schools as a whole. Greenville schools do have their problems in this area with individual teachers. But as a whole we have very dedicated teachers who spend many late hours at the school and at home working for the benefit of the children. Yes, I know of some who get to school at the last minute and always seem to leave ASAP. These are the same ones who when something new is introduced they either try to block it of call the union trying to get them to act against it. Makes you wonder.
ReplyDeleteComments to Charles were written by
ReplyDeleteX-MAN
Comments to Horace were written by
ReplyDeleteX-MAN
Horace is correct.
ReplyDeleteThe board also established a set aside program to save up money with the intent to use as a down payment on buildings.
The union eventually got all the dollars.
I had not idea. How does the union get into funds set aside for something else? Is there a source of reference where I can validate? That is a pretty big piece of pie for me to swallow without a second source. No offense.
ReplyDeleteX-MAN
X-Man - Treasurer of the district is your source for this validation. Should be public record.
ReplyDeleteThanks.
ReplyDeleteX-MAN
Yes you are absolutely correct. I understand about 1 mil was used for raises out of that fund. Negotiated by the union.
ReplyDeleteX-MAN
In My opinion.
ReplyDeleteNow is the Time for Change of Leadership.
Susie Riegle sent the children of Greenville to school friday Feb.5, 2010, with full knowledge that a severe snow warning was issued for the area. Getting in a half day of school was more important than the childrens safety. Riegle's poor decision could of turned tragic, when a bus lost control and turned sideways on state route 502 west and many buses were stuck taking home children in level 2 and level 3 snow emergency conditions. Riegle should be held accountable and reprimanded for her lack of judgment.
It should be crystal clear by now, that Riegle lacks common sense and real world judgment skills. So the tax payers must pay Keith's wrecking service's bill for Riegle's incompetence. Add that to the $22,000 for the special election and send the invoice to Susie Riegle for payment or deduct it from her salary.
Does your employer deduct from your pay for every mistake that you make? Most likely not. Get off the kick of stating every thing you can think of that is negative towards Ms. Riegle being monetarily deducted from her pay. If an employer deducted money every time an employee made a mistake, the employee would be paying their employer for coming to work. It is hard to understand how an article about the school levy has now gotten so far off topic. Quit bashing everyone and participate in being part of the solution, not the problem!
ReplyDeleteI believe at this point, we, the "yes" voters should put all our attention to the people whom did not vote. If we can get them to vote with us, we will be much farther ahead than wasting time with the negative folks. Why fuel their fire?
ReplyDeleteAmen...If an additional 30 people would have voted in each of the 26 districts the tide would have turned.
ReplyDeleteX-MAN
This works if only yes votes
ReplyDeleteIf 17 no's and 13 yes' you get the same results.
The NO votes really meant NO to this plan.
The plan is flawed as not complete.
Make modifications and give a reason for people to vote yes.
anonymous feb 5 4:10..... should every other super in the county also be in this same secenario. Everyone went to school that morning.... it was not snowing and did not snow at that time. How many times is 6 inches called for and we get 1. You would have school called off 15 times a winter with you running the place, however the state allows you 5. You would be the one complaining about Ms Riegle on June 10th when the kids are still making up days saying she should not have canceled so many days last winter when they were only calling for snow and nothing happened... lets fire her because she canceled school for no reason and now its summer and they still have to be in class
ReplyDeleteAnonymous February 6, 2010 10:54 AM, no not everyone went to school that day. Franklin- Monroe never did. I also think Arcanum, and Tri-Village did not either. I do agree with you. I thought it was kind of strange for the schools to close before any snow hit the ground. Its a judgement call and no matter what the decision is, somebody is going to bitch.
ReplyDeleteI think alot of the no votes were not singled out as no for this levy, but as a cumulative response to taxes as a whole. There are a mass of people is this country that have lost faith in the system, with the on set of massive spending at the federal level we're seeing today. Then the current projected budget gets announced and will result in 4.3 BILLION dollars in defecit spending PER DAY. Buried in this bill are the details.... capital gains tax increases from the present 15% to 39%. Almost all tax brackets will increase, although politicians will say it isn't an increase, it is just falling back to past rates by letting some tax cuts expire. Result--more taxes for most Americans... more of your hard earned money missing from your paycheck.
ReplyDeleteThe BOE also seems to be unsure of a true future vision for GCS. Remember in 2003, GCS was about to fall off the map if the community did not provide a new Per-K thru 5 building... hmmmm, fast forward seven years and now it's a 5 thru 8 building?
I just believe it will be very difficult to lure the passage of this levy with a mass of people "running scared" from the unknowns that we are seeing from the shining city on hill...
GCS Alumni. I don't recall 2003 levy being promoted as need to keep community from falling off the map.
ReplyDeleteWhat was good about that levy was it was phase 1 of 2 to address facility needs for the district over the next 30-50 years. There was a plan.
I do fully agree with all your other statements regarding taxes and the cumulative effect of the unknown that people are in no mood to say yes to any tax increase. No matter the merit of the request.
Back to the bus accident on Friday....none of the other county schools closed for the entire day. They ALL had early dismissal! The snow started earlier than predicted.
ReplyDeleteCharlie
ReplyDeleteI do not know about FM, but Arcanum and Tri village DID have school on Friday and let out early. They did not cancel the whole day