Thursday, July 30, 2009

Greenville EMS poll is closed (which means you don't click on the picture)

This poll was 2-to-1 the whole way. DarkeJournal readers say "no" to City of Greenville EMS. Any ideas for the next poll?


  1. The Daily Advocate's poll came up with basically the same results - 68% were against the city starting an EMS in that one. Hmmmm.....

  2. But does city council read the Advocate or Darke Journal? And if they do, do they care?

  3. Does that 68% know anything about the issue? Or did they just vote based on the question?

  4. The know exactly about the issue.

  5. For those who want to learn more about the EMS proposal attend the public meeting on August 8 at 3 p.m. in the council chambers located at the Municpal Building.

  6. There was a lot of bad information, bad speculation and an all around inability of people to understand what is really going on. It appeared that many people in the City of Greenville think they aren't paying for Emergency Medical Service at the present time. Believe me you are, at the current rate of 3.5 mils. If you live in Greenville, you live in Greenville Twp and you are paying that assessment. The city has offered you a chance to lessen your tax burden by placing the Emergency Medical Service (EMS) in the Greenville Fire Department. For this they will charge you a one half mil or .5. That is 3 mil less than you are paying now. You'll pay it to the city and not the township. One person asked how the police dispatchers would feel about the increased work load. There will be no increased load. They already answer all 911 calls in the city. 911 calls aren't differentiated until after they are answered. This means if you have a heart attack in the city and someone dials 911, the Greenville Dispatcher answers the call, determines what it is and then transfers it to the county where you get to do it all over again. The new way will probably shave 30 to 60 seconds off of the call. Trustee Stegall asked where would the city put two ambulances. Well last year he removed two very large engines from the City Fire Dept., so there is probably plenty of room for the vehicles already. Almost since Emergency Medical Service has been a certified position in the State of Ohio, Greenville Fire Fighters have been EMT certified and some are National Certified Paramedics.
    Some of the fingerpointing people need to remember one thing. Fire fighters, Police Officers, Street Workers and even EMT's don't make rules or decisions. Politicians make decisions. The other bunch just carry out their wishes. Hanging all of you hats on an unscietific poll is probably not the best way to go. Reading and understandung reports and the numbers is probably a better way to go. Believe it or not, public safety is a big business. It was recently reported that the Greenville Police Department wss awaiting an accredidation committe visit. They don't have to be accredited by anyone, but to increas their professionalism, the management thought ut would be a feather in their cap. Having Firefighters cross trained is a feather in ther cap but a plus for your public safety if done correctly. Paying attention to what is going on around you helps too. Like when you travel to Piqua, St. Mary's, Celina, Troy, Dayton, Columbus, Cincinnati, Toledo, Bowling Green, Athens, if you see an ambulance it will say Fire Department on the side of it. The City of New York is in the final phases of brining all EMS under the fire department. If this was a bad idea, do you think it would be happening in any of those places? I don't think this has anyting to do with the township removing their trucks from the City. But if it does, then it stands to reason that the City should do the same thing with it's EMS dollars. As a matter of fact, I'm not real sure that perhaps that isn't a very good idea. Let's just go ahead and make a clean break and keep everything in the correct cubby hole. And by the way, it isn't a rescue squad, it is an Emergency Medical Service. A reacue squad is a very large vehicle with about 5 million dollars worth of equipment on it with 4 to 6 people trained in eveerything from high angle rescue to underwater rescue, firefighting and vehicle extrication.
    Bob Rhoades

  7. You seem to be leaving some things out in your statement.

    First off, there WILL be an increase in the work load of the city dispatchers. Yes, they take the call and transfer it, but that is where it stops. You seem to forget from your days of public safety that there are tone drops, call enroute, call on scene, call for additional resources, call for check ups when on scene for an extended period, call enroute to the hospital, call at the hospital, and call in service. This takes up more time, hence more people needed.

    Yes, the reduction in taxes appears good. However, if you really look at the figures you will see that this will be short lived at best. The figures given in the feasibility study are flawed. If you look at the townships response, posted on this website, you will see that there will be NO savings. These figures are taken from the calculations as stated in the cities EMS feasibility study, again posted on this website. Might I add that it was not to long ago that the city asked for increases in taxes or lay off, what was it 11, firefighters. The city is in a deficit now while still needing to replace a $1 million ladder truck and a large start up expense for EMS. The city cannot afford it and neither can the taxpayers.

    Yes, the city has EMT’s and ONE paramedic, not SOME. It takes 15 months to become a paramedic and several years to become proficient. And at 15 months education versus 240 hours for a firefighter, guess which one costs more to certify. Again, more expenses to the taxpayers.

    You cited Athens, the home of the Ohio University, as a city that runs EMS and Fire combined. Athens has fire only. The EMS service is covered by Southeast Ohio Emergency Medical Services. In fact, most of Southeast Ohio is covered by this same EMS service. From what I understand they cover 4 counties, in all of which fire and EMS are separate. And to quote you “Paying attention to what is going on around you helps too. Like when you travel to…” Hocking county Ohio, Delaware county Ohio, Tipp City; all run fire and EMS separate. And let’s dissect your thoughts on cities like Columbus, and maybe Dayton, and Trotwood as well, all who are laying off or asking their people to take pay and benefit cuts or lose jobs.

    Finally, I feel you are degrading the intelligence of the taxpayers by stating “…an all around inability of people to understand what is really going on.” Give them some credit. The taxpayers are not as dumb as you imply. And as for the rescue squad issue you seem to be so worried about, it is called different things in different areas of the nation. And while we are talking about “rescue squads” as you define them, and wasted taxpayer money; do you know or remember that the township has had auto extrication equipment for 35 years and that they have maintained a “rescue squad” for that time period. Do you know that the city wasted taxpayer money by purchasing duplicate equipment?

    Oh, one last thing, with your mentality of tit for tat based on, they took ours so we should take theirs, I am so glad you are not an elected official in this city, or anywhere for that matter.

  8. I just want to clarify something Mr. Rhoades said. He is right about New York city and there EMS, KIND OF. In New York City you either do EMS or FIRE. WHY. Because they are different careers. This is alot different than what the city of greenville wants to do. I know alot of city fire fighters who want nothing to do with EMS. WHY dont they, because they are firefighters.

  9. "I don't think this has anyting to do with the township removing their trucks from the City. But if it does, then it stands to reason that the City should do the same thing with it's EMS dollars."

    That is wonderful logic Bob, make the citizens suffer with lesser health care to make a point, brilliant.
    Your mindset illustrates exactly why the city should not be doing EMS.

  10. Several have asked/emailed my opinion on this issue. I'm still learning myself ... but being a small government guy, I'm wondering if there isn't an alternative to duplicating an already-effective service. That said, I don't have a position yet. A few comments have been deleted, not b/c of any position on my part, but because of more personal attacks, which I'm not comfortable having on the site. Please make your points without making it personal.

  11. This darke journal, on more than 1 topic, does nothing but spread hatred and discontent among the citizens of the city and township. I think the Dark Journal should be discontinued in my opinion.

  12. I think that would be a very bad idea (to discontinue the site) this site gives everyone a chance to "vent" and that is a good thing, once you stop talking about issues they are forgotten and the issues just fade away and no more action is taken on them, so by all means keep the site going, as the webmaster you can be as biased as you want and we will take that into consideration, nuf said.

  13. If you dont like Darke Journal then stay off of it. It appears Darke journal has plenty of support without you.

  14. I think as a city resident and taxpayer, this whole thing about the city fire department taking over ems is a waste of time and tax payers money. We already have a very excellant and seasoned ems service. That would be Greenville Township Rescue. The city budget is avalible for anyone to see. Go to the city building and ask to see it. You will see that the City fire department is one of, if not the highest cost to tax payers. The mayor and other elected officials, should be looking into reducing the city fire departments budget. Why do we need a full time fire department with a run volume under a 1000 a year. If you take away wind stroms and ice on power lines, the run volume would be under 500. Other county volunteer fire departments babysit power lines until DPL can get there. As Bob Rhodes said Look at other cities. Tipp city which is pretty close in runs with Greenville city is a volunteer department. I would hate to see anyone lose their job, but if the city fire department really wants to save us tax payers money, then the mayor and city council should look into their own fire department and if we need a full time department. Also to the mayor and city council, quit wasting your time on this and start working on bringing jobs to Greenville. Like factories and other business, that will help the residents of Greenville.

  15. "This means if you have a heart attack in the city and someone dials 911, the Greenville Dispatcher answers the call, determines what it is and then transfers it to the county where you get to do it all over again."

    This is inaccurate. The city dispatcher takes the call and obtains the address and nature of the problem and relays to county dispatch over intercom. The city dispatcher then provides any prearrival instructions necessary. Medical 911 calls are not transferred.

    "The City of New York is in the final phases of brining all EMS under the fire department."

    Talk to anyone who was part of NYC EMS and transitioned to FDNY and they'll tell you it was a terrible decision. And although everything is under FDNY, there are EMTs and Paramedics who are not certified as FFs - they only do EMS.

    Also, the city needs more than two ambulances. Two are required as there is frequently a second call before the first is back in service. Several times a year there are even 3 or more calls at once. Ambulances will break down and need serviced, so the minimum needed would be 3 to keep 2 in service at all times.

    The bottom line is that Greenville Township Rescue is an outstanding department. Anyone familiar with EMS in the area will tell you they are the best. And doing only EMS, that is their focus and passion. There are very few people who are excellent FFs and EMTs. Most have a passion for one and do the other as a requirement. Who do you want treating you or your family?

  16. So let me get this straight, it's a bad idea for the city to take on EMS which is a money making venture, but it was a great idea for the township to take on firefighting. Seems like some double standards here, but what do you expect.


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