Sunday, July 24, 2011

Guest Post from Charles and Rebecca Reier - "Boehner and Jordan: Be willing to tax the multi-billionaires, Spare the country the pain of a French Revolution"

Over the last decade most Americans have seen their personal wealth and well-being stagnate or collapse. A country that looked for ways to spend its excess wealth is now groveling to maintain solvency. During this period of historically low taxes, multi-billionaires have sprung up like crabgrass in an otherwise burnt summer lawn.

Although the Miami Herald, Arianna Huffington and others have brought attention to this phenomenon, this issue has been squelched by the Tea Party and the right-wing with slogans of “class warfare”. In reality the warfare is against the middle and lower socioeconomic groups. As Warren Buffet has said, since most of his income is from dividends, his tax rate is less than that of the people who clean his office.

We must ask multi-billionaires to pay their fair share toward solving our financial crisis.

The Tea Party that revels in colonial costumes, not unlike the French elite, sends a message to the country that is chillingly similar to Marie Antoinette’s statement “let them eat cake.”


  1. Yes, lets tax those who create the jobs.

    The middle class does not create jobs nor wealth, and those making 250,000 a year are not 'rich'. They are the majority of those in this country who are responsible for the jobs.

    Also, you forgot to mention, that the top 1% in this country pay more taxes than the lower 95%. While the lower 47% of workers pay NO income taxes. So who is not paying their fair share here? The top 1% have 24% of the wealth, yet they pay 40% of all income taxes, so you are right, they aren't paying their share, they are paying their share already and then some!

    Stop with this tax the rich nonsense, you could seize all the wealth of the top 20% in this country and it wouldn't touch the national debt, so you can not tax your way out of this.

  2. The top 1% pay approx 34% off all the taxes already. I think that is pretty "fair share". STOP SPENDING WHAT WE DO NOT HAVE!

  3. Warren Buffet is a very successful man. He is also avoiding estate taxes because he gave his money to the Bill and Malinda Trust fund instead of paying tax on it like most of Darke County farmers and anyone else that was a little successful. I think Buffet may not be exactly what you think he is.

  4. Exactly. They are already paying their share and the next persons share as well, while the lower 47% pay nothing when you take into account child credits etc. So spit out a few kids and too can earn 25k a year and get those 9k income tax returns then turn around and bitch about those not paying their share.

    It's pathetic, class envy and warfare.

  5. There have already been a couple polls on cut, cap, and balance. In the poll where the bill was NOT explained, those polled favored it 2-to-1. In the poll where it WAS explained, 80% favored it. the whole "taxing the rich" thing is nothing more than a talking point at this late date. The people want spending cuts and balanced budgets.

  6. Seems some on here have a problem with the TRUTH and facts.

    The rich already pay their fair share and then some. Keep taxing them and watch how quickly they just go somewhere else.

  7. A place for the government to start saving money is by stop giving big tax refund checks to people for more than what they paid in. NO ONE should get more money back than what they paid in. Period. These people are NOT paying their fair share. I am so sick of the argument that the "rich" don't pay their fair share. This is such a crock. It's time the government learns how to manage the taxpayer's money better. I am a middle class person who doesn't want the government deciding what amount of money is too much money to make. If you do not like the amount of money you make, work harder. This is the land of opportunity NOT the land of handouts!

  8. Exactly. I have friends who make combined 40k a year, but have several kids and bring in 8,500 dollar tax refunds. It's BS. They are the ones not paying their fair share.

  9. Almost fifty percent of this country does not pay one cent of federal income taxes. I guess successful hard working people ought to shell out more rather than make those leeches pay anything. Sooner or later maybe people will wake up to this and demand change. here are makers and takers in this country, sadly I think there are more takers than makers.

  10. I agree, there are definitely more moochers in this country than productive tax paying citizens, and it is only going to get worse if we keep with this welfare mentality that the government owes them something.

    The comment votes on this site prove it.

  11. "So spit out a few kids and too can earn 25k a year and get those 9k income tax returns then turn around and bitch about those not paying their share."

    Can you show me how to do that? I make around 50K and have two kids and don't get near that much back.
    Even though I withhold at the higher single rate.

  12. Go talk to H&R Block. The friends I spoke of, use their service every year, they make barely 40k combined, and this previous year, received a $8,500 refund. The previous year was close to the same.

    I know several people who bring home close to the same every year. It's pathetic, and when you ask them if they think it is right, they have the nerve to say they earned it and paid it in!

  13. Warren Buffet and you can each give all of your money to the government TODAY if it bothers you that much to keep it. One of the most amusing things I saw the other day was when Congressman Moran was questioned about the government's responsibility to protect the individual citizen from those who would attempt to take their property. He agreed with that assessment of the role of government. He was then questioned about the government failing to provide this same protection when government is doing the taking of property from this same citizen. He fled the room without answering the question.

    The only job a Democrat seems to be able to offer someone is at the expense of the taxpayer. Generally through patronage or the new words of Chrony Capitalism.

    Please. Attacking those individuals who believe in individual success and achievement through limited government by self identifying as part of the Tea Party movement only serves to diminish your argument. Or, maybe you realize you do not have one and attacking people is the only schtick you have.

  14. BE: A refund in mostly a function of how much you prepay in estimated taxes or withholdings. Effective tax rate is the measure you want to look at. Refunds tell you nothing.

    Also, the top 1% pay the majority of the taxes because they make the majority of the money. I recently read that 400 people in this country own 60% of the assets. You are choosing to see what you want to see.

  15. Lower the taxes of the rich because they will create jobs.

    The problem is....this is not backed up by the facts. If it were true, we should have seen a huge surge during the Bush Administration given the Bush tax cuts. More jobs were created during the Clinton years and he raised taxes. Even Reagan raised taxes 11 times in order to get the economy going and to balance out his spending.

    I agree that no one should receive more money back than they paid in taxes.

    No one should be singled out to pay more than their fare share but that situation does not exist today, no matter how much misinformation is spewed. Anyone can manipulate percentages to make any argument.

    During the Bush years, the same GOP unconditionally backed Bush while he spent the most money in history to that moment by getting us into two unneeded wars, passed Medicare Part D with no way to pay for it and many other unfunded mandates like No Child Left Behind. Not a word from the now "worried" Tea Party Folks. Only after Obama got elected was the debt spending an issue. Hmm? Make you wonder, doesn't it?

    The Debt exists today because of years of spending by both parties. The debt ceiling is not only to pay for more debt but to pay for what we have already spent. The GOP is scared for their jobs so they let the Tea Party call the shots and say "don't raise the debt ceiling, we need to save the country". And now they want to prove it by not raising it which will ruin our country for sure. Raising the debt ceiling and cutting spending are two separate issues. Of course, then they can blame Obama. They would rather let the country fall into fiscal crisis so long as it hurts Obama. Politics at it's best.

    Murdoch and company put together a plan to implement the old idea that if you tell people something often enough, no matter how untrue, people will eventually start to believe it. If you want proof of that, just read some of the comments above.

  16. The earned income tax credit is what allows some people to get those huge "refunds". It should be done away with. It is nothing but welfare.

  17. Back on point, the tax breaks need to end. It's not about adding a tax, it's taking away what should have been a temporary relief. It's proven ineffective in creating jobs and we have a deficit problem. It should be attacked with significant reductions in spending and also with restoring tax rates to their previous levels.

    the thought that a 'poor person never created a job' is both true and irrelevant. do you suppose that when a company gets a tax break, the first thing they do is translate that amount directly into a paid position(s)?

  18. Wrong, the top percentage of wealthy in this country own 24% of the assets.

    At least have enough courage and come out and admit the fact that you believe it is ok to punish the wealthy to support the moochers of society who contribute NOTHING.

    There is no way you are going to argue, that anyone making 40k a year, should be receiving 8k refunds. It is the child tax credit, and it's stealing from those who actually do contribute. Just because you breed, shouldn't give you the right to steal from others or earn more than you rightfully worked for.

    This is class warfare and nothing more.

    As for now being worried, you seem to overlook the fact that Barry Hussein has spent more in less than three years, than Bush spent in his entire eight. You also forget to mention that the government is close to becoming 25% of the economy, and out debt to GDP ratio is higher than it ever was.

    THIS administration has made the economy and the debt issue an emergency, yes, the previous administrations helped to get us here, but this clown drove us off the cliff.

  19. Also, funny how you Liberals and lefties can rail against Murdoch, but mention nothing of George Soros and his multiple billions he spends pushing his agenda through the majority of the US media in which he owns. Where is the outrage there? Hmm? Do you honestly believe he hasn't influenced your precious MSNBC and the other outdated and relic media sources? The list of groups he gives his money too is over 40 feet long. Funny how you guys always seem to forget him, you know, the guy who has admitted that he loves bankrupting currencies and nations.

  20. Everyone knows that FOX and MSNBC are passing off political influence as news, just leaning in different directions.

    Everyone, that is, but FOX viewers.

    Or as one person said on here one time...."I know FOX leans a bit, but not as bad as the others". Ha! Ha! Ha! HA! HA! HA! HA!

    Ignorance is bliss!

  21. Anonymous and BE and Hard Truth ... all are cowards that will not use their names. They make constantly false comments filled with propaganda that they learn from right wing radio and try to pass it off as a personal opinion of a 'thinking' person. They all have nothing but time to comment many times a day, as they very likely do nothing really productive for the economy of the nation if you can judge by the time they have to distill and ferment their toxic propaganda.

    This is why I am very much against allowing pseudonyms on these pages. They tell me it is to encourage conversations but it only gives a forum to the crazies.

  22. Right Finton, and you are a bastion of knowledge... Get real. You're just as far left as others are right. You are nowhere near unbiased and fair.

  23. It would be nice if people on here remained respectful (BE). The fact that you consistantly refer to our pres as "Barry" instead of his name shows that you have no respect for him or the position, and probably don't have an open mind. The government should be run like an business. If times are tough, and they are, if you want to survive, you need not only cut costs, but look at ways of increasing income. If you lose your job, you can't just continue to cut expenses, at some point, you also need to raise your income. It really is as basic as that. Also, the current tax system does not work, no matter how much you want to defend it. A person making over $250K/ year does not pay as much tax proportionatly as someone making $50K/yr. The dollars may be more, but the overall percentage is far less. In most cases they also don't consume a proportionate amount as someone making $50K. They both buy houses, cars and groceries, but if you compare the percentage of those expenses to their income, you will see that the $50K income has to pay a much larger percentage of income just to live. To keep repeating that the $250K people are the employers of the country is political B.S. Almost anyone that has a business anymore has an S corp or an LLC. These are all set up to avaiod paying taxes. Look past what Fox news and right wingers tell you to beleive. Get ALL of the information and then make your decision, but to continue to quote information that you do not fully comprehend is just silly.

  24. Lol. I have ZERO respect for Obama, true. If this administration was a business, he would have been arrested years ago.

    Also, you are incorrect, the majority of small businesses (the large majority of employers in this country) are filed as personal returns and would included in the 250k and above.

    Funny you mention them avoiding taxes, but not the ones mooching off of everyone else with the child tax credits? How is that any more fair? After all, it is about fairness to quote our clueless leader.

    This has nothing to do with FOX, but with common sense.

  25. BE you are correct in the statement that the child credit thing is just wrong. But if you check with the IRS, The majority of businesses with more than one employee are small businesses, yes, but they are set up under a protective strucuture such as an LLC or Sub S.

    The only fair tax would be a flat tax on all individuals and businesses at a fixed rate. (10-12%) ALL deductions should be removed including mortgage interest for residences, and depreciation and interest for businesses. Unil both sides of the aisle can agree to that, we will always have problems. The trouble is, both sides want to play politics and get re-elected. All of this chest pounding is getting a little old. It's great that the R's want to stick to their guns, but that is not compromise, and if BOTH sides don't compromise, we are doomed for failure. So far, I have only seen attempts from the left, not the right.

  26. It must be nice to live in such a simplistic world, BE. If you're not a small business owner making $250,000+, you're a moocher. If you criticize Fox, you're a pawn of George Soros. If you believe the wealthy should pay more taxes because they can afford to, you're in favor of class warfare.

    This is what the right wingers have gotten good at: reducing complicated problems to reductive bumper sticker slogans that don't begin to reflect just how complex the issues are in the first place. The result? A lack of intelligent, substantive discussion in lieu of mindless hyperbole, underhanded distortion, and outright lying.

    This site COULD be a real resource for dialogue, but time and again the conversation is monopolized by a handful of people who are really only interested in listening to themselves and those who agree with them. Dissenters need not apply.

  27. Tax Cuts – A Simple Lesson in Economics

    Sometimes Politicians can exclaim; "It's just a tax cut for the rich!", and it is just accepted to be fact. But what does that really mean? Just in case you are not completely clear on this issue, we hope the following will help.

    This is how the cookie crumbles. Please read it carefully.

    Let's put tax cuts in terms everyone can understand. Suppose that every day, ten men go out for dinner. The bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

    The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
    The fifth would pay $1.
    The sixth would pay $3.
    The seventh $7.
    The eighth $12.
    The ninth $18.
    The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

    So, that's what they decided to do

    The ten men ate dinner in the restaurant every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve.

    "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily meal by $20."

    So, now dinner for the ten only cost $80. The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes.

    So, the first four men were unaffected. They would still eat for free.

    But what about the other six, the paying customers? How could they divvy up the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share'?

    The six men realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being 'PAID' to eat their meal.

    So, the restaurant owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

    And so:

    The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
    The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% savings).
    The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28% savings).
    The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
    The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
    The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

    Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to eat for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.

    "I only got a dollar out of the $20," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man "but he got $10!"

    "Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than me!"

    "That's true!!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back when I got only $2? The wealthy get all the breaks!"

    "Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!"

    The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

    The next night the tenth man didn't show up for dinner, so the nine sat down and ate without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

    And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up at the table anymore. There are lots of good restaurants in Europe and the Caribbean.

  28. i'll see you copy and pasted email forward and raise you a link to someone pointing out the problems with it...

  29. Anonymous
    July 25, 2011 3:29 PM

    Thank you, thank you, thank you. You hit the nail on the head. I am not pleased with either side right now and think all should be replaced but BE, well, just, wow!

  30. BE et al. You do not think but simply trade flea market information. That 100 dinner story was bull dozed back in 2003 – those who are fortunate to still have a decent job are still worried about a 2000 tax break and like to associate themselves with the ultra rich who worry about their 10 million dollar tax break. BE - you have no idea who the ultra rich are nor the power they wield.
    There are four 25 yr olds who made their hundreds of billions on the internet that you and I paid for with our tax dollars – these 4 can buy the entire assets of the US Congress, the Supreme Court and the President without making a dent in their lifestyle. I bet you cannot even name them. When they tire of their billions and mansions and yachts and toys, guess where they end up? Power greed comes next. Same thing happened with the Astors, the Rockefellers etc. until they paid for the privilege of collecting wealth in the United States– and BINGO the country thrived after that. Read the stats after taxes were raised in the past century.

  31. Uh, George Soros could buy the founders of Google, Facebook and the few other dot com billionaires several times over... And, unlike them, he -IS- using his political powers to sway things in this country. He has already bankrupted two countries, and helped weaken the pound. Do your own research.

  32. @ Anonymous 2:55pm.....

    Your President's name IS Barry! (It scares me half to death that you STILL don't know that!) It is NOT some cute little nicknmae. His name: Barry Soetoro. Look it up and stop being willfully ignorant.

  33. Ding Ding Ding... 10:24 gets it.

    Then again, with as many communist and marxists as his mom slept with, who knows what his name should be.

  34. BEJuly 25, 2011 2:23 PM
    Wrong, the top percentage of wealthy in this country own 24% of the assets.

    Wrong ... the top 1% owns 50% of the nations assets. It is extremely lopsided and not much beyond medieval feudalism.

    And, yes, people making a decent salary should not get large subsidies in the form of Earned Income Credits any more than oil companies who make record billions every year in profits shuild get tax breaks and get out of paying their fair share of taxes.

  35. The Reiers are right!!

  36. If you beleive the Barry Soetoro thing, then you are proving that you only listen to Rush and other extreme right wingers. DO SOME FACT CHECKING! This just proves you are an idiot. Go to this link if you have any interest in facts. My guess is that you won't because it does not support your agenda.

  37. General Electric used enough accounting tricks to avoid paying any tax this year, on billions of revenue, shame on them, good Americans they are.

  38. As did NewsCorp and others..

    They should all pay their fair share. No more special deals. Let's make the tax code fair across the board, starting with eliminating loopholes and incentives for those that don't need them.

  39. I believe Soros owns that is not a reliable source of anything that supports the extreme Leftist agenda.

    I would sure like to A LOT of things about Barry that seem awfully mysterious. Who did he date before Moochelle? What were his grades in college? Why did he never practice law? Why was his law license revoked? Why does he lie so much?

  40. The web site is (and always has been) a completely independent, self-sufficient entity wholly owned by its operators, Barbara and David Mikkelson, and funded through advertising revenues. Neither the site nor its operators has ever received monies from (or been engaged in any business or editorial relationship with), any sponsor, investor, partner, political party, religious group, business organization, government agency, or any other outside group or organization.

    Barbara Mikkelson is a Canadian citizen and as such cannot vote in U.S. elections, register an affiliation with a U.S. political party, or donate to any U.S. political campaign or candidate. David Mikkelson is an American citizen whose participation in U.S. politics has never extended beyond periodically exercising his civic duty at the ballot box. As FactCheck confirmed in April 2009, David is a registered independent who has never donated to, or worked on behalf of, any political campaign or party. The Mikkelsons are wholly apolitical, vastly preferring their quiet scholarly lives in the company of their five cats to any political considerations.

    ...maybe they work for the CIA. Make sure you wear your foil hats when you go to bed little black helicopters come to steel your thoughts at night.

  41. Why is the moon made of Cheese?
    Why did they fake the moon landings?
    Where did they find the double when Paul McCartney died?

    Anyone can make up stupid theories. And like so many on here, if someone disputes it, they must be left wing conspirators and their sources are no good, unlike FOX news.

    What a bunch of loons.

  42. "The Tea Party that revels in colonial costumes, not unlike the French elite, sends a message to the country that is chillingly similar to Marie Antoinette’s statement “let them eat cake.”

    The most striking difference between today and 18th century France is that nearly 50% of the "peasants" in the US agree with the spirit of this sentiment.Historians will one day damage their heads from scratching. Viva Fox news and talk radio!

  43. Liberalism truly is a mental disorder. This thread is excellent evidence of that.

  44. This is getting stupid.July 28, 2011 at 10:54 AM

    Yeah, guys! I disagree with you so must be incompetent or evil!

  45. I love how extreme people like to put down extreme people. Extreme in either direction is not healthy for the country. Just because that's all you see in TV and/or Radio proves nothing and is not indicative of most people, who tend to be somewhere in the middle overall. Many believe parts of both philosophies but when you do, the extreme people put you down, secure in their extreme beliefs. Pot calling the kettle?

    Extreme left or extreme right is extremely bad for our country!


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