Saturday, July 23, 2011

Open Discussion: Debt Ceiling Debate, What Do You Think?

Update (7/23): Speaker of the House John Boehner has cut off talks with the President after not being able to reach an agreement, saying he will focus on working with leaders of the Senate, saying he and the President were "never really close" on a deal.

Original Post: It's all we are hearing about at the national level, the impending deadline to raise the debt ceiling, else be unable to issue new debt and run the very real risk of having the government's credit rating lowered.

So what do you, oh good readers of Darke Journal, think should happen from here?


  1. I got this from FB.

    Dear Mr. President, I heard you say you will not guarantee SS checks if the debt ceiling isn't raised. Why is the scare always... SS, Medicare, & our Soldiers pay? Why not stop your own pay or all of Congress to save much more money for our country? Why use the Seniors, Soldiers, & our Needy as examples? Take the money from those who take no risks and reap the benefits?

  2. Why can't we stop all foreign aid and take care of own country?

  3. We can't afford more debt, there is no plan to repay why we owe already, cut 10% across the board, spare no program.
    That would be painful but it needs to be done, if I recall correctly we will borrow 41 cents of each dollar spent this year, we can't keep piling on debt, that could eventually wreck the entire country.

  4. Oh yes, let's max out our credit card and barely make the interest payments, and then ask the bank for more money to blow. Meanwhile, don't cut back on any spending at all! Great idea!!!

  5. Obama said he could fix the economy. Remember all that talk about getting us out of the ditch? Instead, gas is more expensive. Food is more expensive. Unemployment is up. Record number of Americans on welfare and food stamps. The deficit is way up. And the debt is through the roof -- that being the reason we need to increase the debt limit. The focus should not be about the debt ceiling, but what the hell happened these last 2.5 years to get us here.

  6. When will people learn we were in a big mess
    before Obama, just he has added to it.

  7. After 2 1/2 years, its his mess. Let's not forget that.

    And he should be held accountable for his campaign promises.

    The only thing bigger than the debt may be Obama's ego. :->

  8. Article in Dayton paper highlights that spending is the root cause. Amazing how quickly expenditures grew each year over the last 10; even after discounting the need / impact of stimulus programs of past 2 years.

    Solution will be painful.

    Recently it was shared that no country is expected to pay back its debt as its like a "Revolving Loan Fund" and a country is expected never to have to settle it "estate".

    Makes some sense if done with moderation.

  9. Least we not forget, this county has been in a constant state of debt since the War of 1812. therefor, it is the responsibility of EVERY president since. It takes a nation of bad policy makers and citizens to keep the ball rolling...

  10. As long as we have Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid and defense, we will be in debt. Sure there is money wasted other places, but most people only want to argue about the crumbs and say "hands off" on the big ticket items listed above. When Obama mentions Social Security, everyone throws a fit. They want to not pay the bills that don't effect them but god forbid you touch their "entitlements"

    Like it or not, we need to tackle these big ticket items or the point is mute. Put up or shut up!

  11. The debt we already have is probably not capable of being repaid. Spending cuts just throw people out of work and shrinks the economy. Taxation would help, but it is not enough to get us our of debt. Besides, the new taxed are just spent and do not retire debt that much. That leaves only one real option: devaluing the US dollar. This is a quite likely move in the near future. Devaluing the dollar makes our exports worth more and our imports more expensive. China will be the reason for this, as China wants its own currency to take the place of the dollar. Devaluing the dollar will also hurt China most. Other currencies would follow the lead and devalue their currency as well. The victim of this will be purchasing power. Goodbye cheap living.

  12. I'm sure that Nobama will continue to blame Bush for everything that is now clearly HIS problem during the upcoming campaign. Hope & change my a$$!

  13. In reality, the Chief Actuary of Social Security confirmed last week that current Social Security tax receipts are more than enough to cover current outlays. The only reason those checks would not go out would be if the administration decided to spend those designated funds elsewhere. Obama is once again trying to scare old folks on SS. Funny he didnot mention that if the debt limit is not raised welfare and foodstamp checks woul not go out. I say shut it down. The country is bankrupt already we just have not acknowledged it yet. Obama and the house and senate are borrowing money from communist China to pay te minimum payment on the nations credit dards. That will not last long. Gutless politicians will never make the real and depp cuts that are needed. We are witnessing the decline of a great empire.

  14. I remember Boehner saying that he wouldn't let ObamaCare be implemented. So much for that... The Republicans control the House. They can defund a lot of programs if they wanted. The Repubs are just as guilty as the Dems.

  15. The republicans can only pass a budget in the House, they have done that. The democrats control the senate and presidency. Obama can veto anything he wants and there are not enough republicans to overide it. Why has the senate under Harry Reid not even passed a budget for over two years? The house passed theirs. Obama submitted a budget proposal that was voted down 97 - 0 in the dem controlled senate. The dems control the ability to get a bill passed. Where is obama's plan and what cuts does he call for?

  16. Back here in the heartland of Darke County, our Commissioners pass a budget $330,000 in the red. All are Republicans. Is this conservative taxpayer money management??

  17. Compared the the almost $5,000,000,000,000 Obama added to the national debt in less than three years. Yes, the republicans had spent like mad as well, but Bush's largest deficit in his 8 years in office was 500 billion, Barry's first year was almost 1.5 trillion. He has taken a bad situation and made it a 100x worse. The best thing we can do about our debt situation is get this guy out of office and take the US credit cards away from him and the Democrat Congress.

  18. Reagan raised taxes 11 times and compromised when it made sense.

    Reagan never ever proposed a balanced budget...Ever!

    These same congressmen raised the debt limit multiple times during the Bush Administration, at a time when the most spending ever (to that point) was going on. No questions asked.

    Now it is suddenly a terrible problem.

    The only problem is that they want to be in power. Can you say politics?

    They say don't ruin the fragile economy and they want to help by not raising the debt limit which will increase interest rates among other things.

    We are arguing over closing loopholes. You know, for the people that produce jobs. How has that been working since the Bush tax cuts?

    Anything to please the Tea Baggers and get reelected.

    My the GOP sure has changed.

  19. I sure hope all of you have called or written you're elected officials concerning this matter.

    You can blame all the presidents and/or opposing parties you want, but until WE THE PEOPLE start doing our job and holding all of our officials accountable instead of complaining about it on the internet nothing will ever change. Ever.

    Would all of you "Party Pushers" please stop blaming all of our country's problems on the opposing party? Please?


  20. Yes, lets raise taxes on companies that already are not hiring because of this administration and make sure they don't hire. The US already has the highest corporate tax in the world, lets just add another reason for them to take their jobs overseas. Wynn was right, this president is an absolute wet blanket for the business sector, everything he does makes it worse. Remember using his own words "the private sector is the enemy". Sure sounds like someone who has this economy's best interest in mind..

  21. Anonymous 6:45 PM: Yours is by far the best comment of all.

    Anonymous 4:45 PM: Yours is the next best. Remember when the GOP was simply those who loved business and hated unions?

  22. The only thing more frustrating, and honestly offensive, is this notion on the left, that they are entitled to tell companies that are sitting on trillions to spend that money, or that they should be hiring. Then again we currently have an administration so beholden to the unions that they actually believe they have the right to tell a company where it can build it's next factory.

    If the Obama administration cared so much about jobs, it wouldn't be fighting Boeing over it's new plant, and would let them proceed and create thousands of NEW jobs, not transplanted jobs. But, no, instead they are doing the unions bidding and fighting it at the expense of the local area.

    I also find it curious that when the president is giving his lectures to the media about how we got here, he NOT ONCE has ever taken an ounce of blame for helping drive us into the ditch. Not once does he indicate that his so called stimulus might have been a failure, even when the numbers prove it was. Until he can deflate his ego enough to admit he and his party are part of the problem, there will be no solution, just more politics.

  23. THE 14TH AMENDMENT, Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned.

    THE 14TH AMENDMENT, Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned.

    This means that congressional attempts to limit the debt ceiling that would cause our debts not ti be aid is unconstitutional. The debts must be paid according to the Constitution. Those claiming otherwise are in rebellion to the provisions of the Constitution.

  24. At some point you have to say enough is enough and stop with the spending, this president absolutely does not understand that, neither does the congress, and that means BOTH parties. The debt this nation carries is a noose around it's neck, and it's getting drawn tighter each passing year.

    Once China says enough is enough and stops buying our debt, we are DOA.

  25. The Hard Truth is like so many who hears "facts" on TV and radio and then swears by them.

    The ecomony was ruined during the last administration due to many factors and the current administration has failed miserably to fix it. The stimulus was an attempt and did save several industries and helped many local municipalities. No action by the government at that time would have been catastrophic. Just saying "NO!" would not have fixed anything.

    At the end of the day, not raising the debt limit is like cutting up your credit cards because you can't control your spending and then refusing to pay your credit card company because you know longer have the cards. Much of the debt limit needing raised is money already spent.

    Yes, we need to reign in spending to the point where it will hurt. And we need to get rid of tax breaks that we can't afford (and never could). Anything less than trying all options is pointless.

    And to quote our illustrious speaker...."Where are the jobs?" Wasn't that what was important during the last election. So where are they now?

  26. Corporations and small businesses aren't hiring, and why would they? I am not hiring in my business, and have no intention of hiring until this president is out of office. Nothing he has done has worked to create jobs, he has taken a bad situation and made it 100x worse. He is a inexperienced, radical academic, he has never ran a business or even held a real job. Is it such a surprise he is absolutely clueless about how to fix the economy?

    If he was president of a corporation, he would have been fired or in jail a long time ago.

    But yes, keep blaming Bush, keep bringing up a president who has been out of office for almost three years now. THIS IS OBAMA'S ECONOMY NOW, not Bush's, nor anyone else's. It's time for him to take some responsibility.

    The jobs aren't here in Ohio, and will continue to not be until we lower our taxes and actually do something to attract corporations back to this area. Ohio is a dismal state for business right now, and that isn't going to change any time soon.

  27. So I wonder how many amongst us believe the government has the right and power to tell a corporation it must spend the money it is sitting on? Hmm?

  28. 12:01, I don't think you realize just how much money obama has spent. He is the biggest spender in the history of this nation. make all the excuses for him that you want but that is a fact. His budgets will dwarf all the other presidents combined. You ask "Where are the jobs". You may want to ask obama where they are.He promised millions of jobs when he rammed his stimulous through. Shovel ready jobs. Now he laughs and makes a joke out of the fact there really were no shovel ready jobs. I also do not think you realize that government does not and cannot "create jobs". Under obama the epa and many other agencies have put burdens on businesses that would make any sensible businessman not want to take chances and hire people. Obamacare is just one, but it is a costly one. Taxes being raised and created and yes under obamacare there are many new taxes kill jobs as well. I hope you study up before you spout off next time.

  29. Someone stating they will not hire people until this president is out of office only shows how poor of a businessman you are if that is the only criteria. And I doubt you run anything.

    Like it or not, the economy went to he** under Bush and then Obama failed to fix it. Your short-term memory does not change those facts.

    Show me where Obama laughs and makes jokes about shovel-ready jobs. Oh, I know, Rush or Sean told you that one. Show me.

    There were shovel-ready jobs right here in this county that benefited from the sitmulus. They helped pay for unfunded mandates. Get out of Greenville once in a while.

    I agree that government cannot create jobs. So tell me why Boner use to go on TV and say "Where are the jobs, Mr. President?" Did you call him and tell him to cut the rhetoric and help or did you just beat your chest when he yelled "hell no!" and did nothing?

    History proves that lowering taxes don't produce jobs. If they did, we would have had millions of new jobs after Bush instead of a wrecked economy.

    We had double-digit price increases for years in the medical insurance area. Show me where it has gotten worse due to Obamacare?

    Repeating talking points you hear on tv and radio don't make something true. The old idea that if you repeat something often enough people will believe it is proven everyday. Ask Murdock and cronies. They built a business model on it.

    No, Obama hasn't done the job. He has failed to deliver on his promises. But with psycho tea-baggers running the GOP you can't blame him for everything. And burying your head in the sand doesn't prove your point.

  30. I have never seen a new tax that created a job.

  31. And the 8 years of bush proved that tax breaks didn't save any either!


    Here is Barry Hussein Obama laughing about there not being shovel ready jobs.

    He is a joke.

  33. Watched the video and of course it is cut off just as Obama starts to speak. He is saying that there weren't as many as they thought there might be that were ready enough to benefit from the plan. But then the rest of his comments are cut off (on purpose). View the entire response and you get a different perspective of his comments.

    The original comment by Anon 3:04pm was "Now he laughs and makes a joke out of the fact there really were no shovel ready jobs." This is not the case and not what the video (in it's entirety) shows.

    Here is Darke County and neighboring counties there were several such projects that did benefit from this plan. Next time you might want to do a "fact check" first.

  34. Signs were put up on projects already started or planned and scheduled bragging that this is a project made possible by the "stimulous?. Fact is it was and is a huge failure. Obama said if it was not passed we would see 8% unemployment. How did that work out?

  35. Each job created by the stimulus cost the American tax payers over $250,000. Do you qualify that as a success? I call it a boondoggle and a failure.

    As for tax breaks not creating jobs, what was the unemployment rate under Bush again? Oh yeah, 5%. Please enlighten me how raising taxes on small business, and corporations will entice them to hire again?

    Or are you among the group on the left that believe they can tell or shame employers to hire as well as spend their saved capital?

  36. The economy almost collapsed under Bush until at the very end he (first) and then Obama took steps to save it. What would unemployment be right now if 2 of the Big 3 would have gone out of business as well as the insurance and banking industries.

    The main reason the Stimulus was a failure was because it wasn't big enough and the GOP fought it at every level. Had Obama sat on his arse and said "no" with no alternative plan (like the GOP), we would be in much worse shape today.

    The GOP has, and will do, anything to get Obama out of office including tanking the economy if need be. If you think otherwise you have no idea how today's politicians think.

  37. Right, it is rather easy to sit here and say if Barry hadn't done this, or that we would be worse off, as there is no definable way to prove it.

    But, what is provable is he has spent more than any president combined in US history, he has the highest unemployment figures and worst economy since the great depression and none of the trillions he has spent have done anything to help the economy.

    The reality is the business leaders of this country think he is a clown, and now it is starting to leak out and confirm as much, well with the exception of GE that Barry's buddy runs. Then again they paid $0 in taxes last year and will most likely do the same this year, all the while he bashes corporate leaders as being greedy.

    So spending $250,000 PER JOB, wasn't enough? Would spending a billion per job been enough for you? It didn't work, it made things worse. He is so set to his ideology of spending and socialism that he absolutely refuses to make cuts. Saying he wants to make cuts, then offering a pathetic 3 billion dollar cut only shows he isn't serious.

    We need someone in the White House who has actually had a job, and ran something, not a community organizer who has had everything given to him, and hasn't worked a real job once in his life.

  38. 1:55, Yeah right, we just didn't spend enough. I bet you actually believe that nonsense. Chrysler and GM would not have gone out of business. They should have gone through the normal bankruptcy like many other large corporations have. They would have been restructered and would be in better shape today. A few of the largest airlines went through that and are stronger now. You do realize the US taxpayers lost billions on those two bailouts? I do know this. Obama and the democrat senate have not passed a budget in over 800 days or two years. Where is obama's budget? First obama touted jobs created. Then when it was learned no jobs were really being created he hauls out "jobs saved". He knew there was no way to prove you saved any jobs. Where are those shovel ready jobs obama was laughing about? He is the biggest spending president in history and you say he just has not spent enough. Some of you people find it awful easy to spend other peoples money. Do you even pay taxes? Almost half this country pay no fed income taxes. I say make those people start paying something before you raise my taxes.

  39. Lets not forget when he did introduce a budget, not even one democrat voted for it!

  40. The sides WERE close on a deal, but then Obama got scared because those in his party were bucking him. They wanted to "call the Republicans bluff" at letting the country default on their massive debt. Funny how the Democrats decided it works - "We create the huge debt that results in the country reaching the debt ceiling, we spend the money to put the country at the debt ceiling, but we don't want to stop creating debt or stop spending to avoid this disaster in the future...and, oh yeah, it is the Republicans fault if we default because they were trying to hold us back from needless spending and raising of debt. Yeah, blame them."

    In the words of Earl Pitts - "WAKE UP AMERICA!!!"

  41. The national debt grew at the rate of 570 million per day under Clinton, 1 billion a day under Bush and now at 4 billion a day under Obama. The problem is obvious, they spend entirely too much.

    The left can not stop spending, they even talk of yet another stimulus package. They keep doubling down on stupid. The president has had NO plan of his own, he hasn't laid anything on the table, he sits there and acts like a king while expecting the Republicans to bow to his ideas. He is the one who has spent more than any president in this countries history, he is the one who is responsible for this economy, yet he brings nothing to the table.

    The Republicans should stand their ground and make him bend, he absolutely has to if he wants to stand a chance of reelection. If this country defaults, it will be on his shoulders.

  42. Look at the effects on the debt/deficit caused by Bush's 2001 & 2003 tax cuts or the Mediare D benefits he passed. Think about how much we spent in Iraq and whether that war was necessary. Look at how many times the debt ceiling was raised under Bush and how Cheney notoriously said deficits don't matter.

    Ask yourself which president signed TARP into law. Ask yourself whether you think the stimulus would have been introduced if the financial issues which arose prior to 1/20/09 had not happened. Ask yourself whether you know better than the independent Office of Management & Budget who determined that Obamacare was budget-neutral.

    I know there are a lot of rightwingers on here but why all of a sudden are you guys so concerned about the debt? And, do you really believe Obama deserves so much blame for it?

  43. Obama has still spent more than any president in history before him, combined, excluding TARP, which you are right, was signed by Bush. So your point is moot.

    If the president wants to truly solve the problem, where is his plan? Hmmm? Why haven't the democrats come up with ONE plan, other than saying they want higher taxes. If they are so concerned with debt, where is their plan?

    So far, it has entirely been the Republicans bringing plan after plan to the left.

    If it wasn't for the Republicans and the TEA party, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

    As for deficits, Bush's largest YEARLY deficit was a little over 500 billion, Obama's first yearly deficit was over 1.3 trillion, 1.6 trillion this year. So please spare us this fallacy that Obama cares about debt, the only thing he knows how to do is spend.

  44. I think the blame on Obama and his epic failure as a President is that the stimulus signed wasn't to prevent the complete and utter collapse of the financial industry...or to keep the U.S. from being attacked again by terrorists...but to "reward" political allies. To fund "pet projects" of Democrats who had not been able to fund such pet projects while for a while. To essentially tell the Republicans "I won"...oh, wait...he did that anyway!

    Yes, let's spend to put up pretty green signs advertising the President's failed stimulus at every road project. Let's please put more gardens on city rooftops that have NO hope of growing because of a lack of proper nutrients in the ground transported to the rooftops or proper care put into the gardens by those in charge. Please, put more money into paying for people to stay at home and play their Xbox and snort their crack and knock up the neighborhood tramp, followed by paying for the tramp to raise that baby. Please...PLEASE can't we just have a few more dollars to put into those things? Please?

    Wow, liberals make pretty easy targets when they just paint the bullseye on for everyone, don't they?

  45. What I would like to see is the House hold the line. They came up with a plan now they should stick by it. NO compromise...who cares if it has been voted down once by the senate. No one else has come up with anything at all let alone anything better. Let someone act like they have a "pair" to put it politely. THreatening that people aren't going to get their checks sounds like saber rattling to me and even if they don't it won't last for long. My house suffers tremendously if the government shuts husband is a government employee; but at least we know that someone out there is fighting for us and doing what they were voted into office to do. You can't help but respect that. Arguing about who is to blame for what...well, that accomplishes????

  46. No president in our history drove the national debt up at the amount that George W. Bush did.

  47. WRONG. Obama has spent more than Bush already, go get your facts straight.

  48. Here is the deficit/surplus figures.

    He has spent more and added more to the national debt than Bush did in his entire term. Stop repeating MSNC's talking points.

  49. If I remember correctly, Obama outspent Bush's eight years before Obama was in office one year. Thinking back deeper, it may have even been in the first MONTH of his Presidency that he outspent Bush's eight years.


  50. Too many here are spouting falsehoods as through they are facts with figures that have no proof at all. It is all propaganda.

    The bare truth is that debt will always be with us. Debt is what drives the economy. It is the other half of saving. Hate/ love, good / bad, right / left, debt / savings. The two go together like bikes and pedals.

    Of course a nation can overspend, but when the economy is in the toilet, perhaps we should flush it. Governments can print money to get out of debt. Yes, it makes the currency worth less, but it fluctuates anyway.

    Our best shot at the moment is to invest in new renewable energy, clean up the emissions and pollution that is threatening all life on the earth. Our infrastructure requires investments of several trillion dollars as well.

    American citizens, social security and the military pensions own almost 2/3 of this debt everyone is complaining about. The remaining third is primarily China (7.5%) and Britain (9%) and the other 10 percent is other foreign countries.

    We borrow 40 cents on every dollar we spend. That is a problem that we should not sustain, but proper taxation, the removal of tax breaks to companies that do not need them, and streamlining more efficient government spending and cutting huge defense expenses would easily solve that problem.

  51. Quit blaming Social Security. If they, politicians, would have kept their sticky fingers out of Social Security it would have more than enough money in it that I and countless WORKING AMERICANS have paid into it for over 40 years. Don't touch Social Security or Military checks. Put the money back that was taken, plus interest. It was designed as a stand alone entity for all who "thought" they could supplement their retirement. Where is this country going? Open your eyes people before it is too late. My children are smart enough to have their own retirement accounts but I wonder how safe those are with the government we have? I guess we need to go back to stuffing our mattresses???? We would be further ahead!

  52. Social security is a flawed premise. Working people now pay for the benefits folks are drawing on. But then a population boom happens and there are more retiring/drawing than those working/contributing, it's going to come to a shortfall eventually, regardless of other policies.

  53. Right Finton, building windmills will get us out of this recession. *rolls eyes* Spare us your nonsense. Obama has spent more than president before him, that is a FACT yoiu liberals need to accept.

    Only a liberal would think the way to get out of a recession is to spend more in government, we tried that, we spent trillions, and look what it has gotten us? NOTHING. Well, it did get the dollar at it's weakest since the depression, and the world threatening our good standing. Yet, you liberals want to print more? Incredible, you guys just don't learn do you?

    Building roads, and infrastructure creates TEMPORARY jobs, and wasn't that what the stimulus was for? Hmmm? Those so called shovel ready jobs and infrastructure?

    This is a perfect example of the disconnect Liberals have from reality. When we are BROKE, and the creditors are knocking on the door, these clowns want to spend more.

    As for the so called tax breaks. The tax breaks the oil companies get, are also the same ones the local coffee shop on the corner gets, so do they not deserve the same fair treatment?

    What is funny, is Apple Computers, the liberal favorite, is close to passing Exxon in earnings, yet where are the calls for Steve Jobs head and taxing those big, evil, computer companies!

    Class warfare is a joke.

  54. I don't know the numbers on this, but I do recall hearing that it was once something like 16 working Americans were paying for one person on social security. Now it is something like 3 working persons to one, and the numbers keep getting worse when the country continues to pay for people not to work. Entitlements are a HUGE problem. Saving social security is one thing, but paying for someone to stay home and do nothing is another!

  55. To Anonymous on 7/23/11 @ 2:38pm:

    Well put. Couldn't have said it better myself.

  56. Its ridiculous to worry/dwell/point fingers at what the other guy did, when he did it or what his reasons were for doing it and vice versa. What we are faced with is the need to come up with a solution to our problem. At this point which of our "representatives" has done that? I see one fair to middlin' plan; and yes, I'm willing to accept that because at this point it is better than nothing, but you better bet that it is going to have consequenses come election time. The majority of what I see is just more of the usual grandstanding and rhetoric. It's more about one guy talking about what the other guy ISN'T doing than that guy talking about what HE is getting done. If a higher tax is the answer than do it...if its budgetary cuts than do that...if its a combination of the two than what the hey...if it means calling in some of our own IOU's than jump on the damn phone and do it, who cares what the world thinks but get off your collective political butts and take care of what you were voted into office to do. Otherwise, we get rid of the lot of them because they are not serving their purpose. I am constantly amazed that our representatives take office then forget that they work for their constituents, not for some political hacks or lobbiests in DC. What is even more amazing is that their constituents forget that the representative works for them too. There are a lot of ideas here; why not share them instead of lambasting each other for having them?

  57. And the murdoch sheep keep listening and believing. No wonder Greenville continues down the slippery slope.

  58. This coming from a George Soros zombie..


  59. Murdoch sheep??? I find it laughable that so many here have to put the indiviual into a nice, neat party-lined compartment. Just HOW does that lend itself to the discussion? Making a statement like that indicates that the person hiding behind that particular handle of Anonymous (love how they all do that btw!)isn't any better than the polticians doing the same. Tell you what Anonymous; if you have a better idea than anyone else lets hear it...without grandstanding, without party politiking, without sucking in and spewing out CNN, FOX, MSNBC or whatever your favorite media outlet might be feeding the country as THE TOP RHETORIC of the DAY. If you are going to critisize then do so constructively and have a solution in mind. If you ask me; people taking anonymous jabs at others is the reason Greenville just might be continuing down the so called slippery slope as some might believe. BTW...the George Soros jab is really no better either; Murdoch just gets picked out of the fold more than most.

  60. Beth - Lets start by acknowledging how we got in this mess. Too much spending by both sides of the aisle. Too little complaining until the current administration got into power. Too much complaining by those that are guilty in the past of adding to the problem. Too little acknowledgement of the left and right leaning media outlets that spew opinion as facts. Too many sheep that swallow it all. Until you recognize and admit everyone is at fault, you will never fix the problem.

    Next, admit that we are spending too much and decide where to cut it. Nothing can be sacred and nothing should be off limits. Address the big 3 or you will never fix the problem.

    Stop arguing about small potatoes. Everything other than the Big 3 is small potatoes.

    Nothing should be off the table including tax hikes to pay for our past sins. You don't go on vacation when you are broke. You don't refuse to get a second job after your personal finances are trashed. You do it all. Tax cuts haven't produced jobs so go back to pre-Bush tax cut levels at a minimum. Maybe back to Reagan-era rates. That, alone, would help tremendously.

    Raise the debt limit. It has nothing to do with cutting spending and all to do with a lifetime of bad choices. It's like cutting up your credit cards and then refusing you pay your credit card bill because you no longer have the cards.

    Admit that while everyone has a different viewpoint on how to run the country, no one hates America, no one is a secret muslim, no one raises oil prices on purpose, and accept that everyone is a fine American unless proven otherwise, which does not include opinion broadcasters.

    That is a start.

    Maybe more than anything, figure out how to get rid of the lobbyist and big money in government who are influencing stupid agendas ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE!!!!. Allowing unlimited money in elections was the worse thing to ever have happened and should be readdress by a vote of the people. But big money will never let that happen.

    And finally, understand that if you want the government to work for you, they WILL have to spend money. There still is no such thing as a free lunch. You have to pay to play! That is Greenville's biggest problem. Too many want you to pay but not themselves. They want utilities, good roads, parks, etc. but want the other guy to pay for them. People moving out and being backfilled with others who don't give a crap. And when the local government entities try to keep things nice or make improvements, everyone complains about it. and so it goes on and never gets addressed. Quite a slippery slope indeed.

  61. Ironic how the left hasn't come up with a plan until Harry Reid finally came up with the stinker he released today, yet they complain about how the right (right, correct, accurate...put it any way you please) can't come up with the right plan.

    The idiots who come here and say something about "Murdoch sheep" essentially bring nothing to the postings here other than showing that they are the bona fide sheep of the bunch - they can't think of anything to say other than calling those with opinions other than their own terrible and have to label people as "sheep" of a guy who owns a cable channel because they are forward thinking Americans who understand the debt consequences and also understand that continuing to pay for the people calling them "sheep" to stay home, mooch welfare, deal drugs, play their video games, and procreate with random tramps will continue to send the country down the wrong path for ever pulling itself out of the massive debt hole.

    So, if possessing some modicum of intellect as to how government works and how this debt problem needs to be solved, well...


  62. Captain CourageousJuly 26, 2011 at 6:41 AM

    Once again, the president shows he is willing and open to compromise, offering up steep cuts in programs along with removing the Bush era tax cuts for income beyond 250k.

    All while the repubs sit with arms folded, stomping their feet and refusing to compromise, lest they look weak to tea party neanderthals.

  63. Funny, cause even Harry Reid has agreed and co-authored the plan the Republicans are signing on to. It is only Barry who is against it, moving to even the left of Harry Reid. He is doing nothing but throwing meat to the far left constituents.

    It's amusing how you liberals have to insult EVERYONE you disagree with. Then again, when you party has a position that goes against the majority of this nations citizens viewpoints, you have to resort to childish name calling since you know if it was laid out, people would reject your ideals, just as they always have when Liberals try pushing them down peoples throats. Lest you forget their Captain, Barry Hussein Obama may have rode into office in 08', but your party, is still the minority in this country, and liberals are an even smaller majority. So enjoy the last year you have with this clown, cause he is going down.

  64. Murdoch laughs while the sheep defend his honor. They don't even have a clue that they are being used.

    The rich high-five each other while the droids claim they will save us all with jobs that have been no where to be found, ignoring the facts of history.

    Reaganites are suddenly missing in action. Very sad. Just two years ago he was god.

    The Tea Baggers would rather let the country go into default than admit there needs to be a balanced approach. As long as they are doing it for us (sarcasm)

    The real GOP sits back for fear of getting challenged during the next election. Wouldn't want to lose those beni's

    The Dems offer more significant cuts than ever in history and the Tea Baggers are too stupid to take the deal.

    235 years of compromise to make this nation work and the right now thinks the best way is to just say "No!"

    What a bunch of sheep. Kinda like defending the honor of those who run the local brothel.

    And we wonder why things are not getting better?

  65. lol, you have invalidated everything you have said with your name calling, thanks for showing us your utter lack of intelligence and lack of a real argument.

  66. Obama's and Bush's Effects on the Deficit in One Graph:

  67. After reviewing the "cuts" offered by the Democrats, it is transparently clear they aren't really "cuts." Just items that the country is ALREADY not going to spend on in the future. The Democrat plan is a smoke and mirrors campaign!

    Pretty simple to see when you look into it. Anyone bother to do that?


  68. At the end of the day, the Tea Baggers are willing to tank the economy and the country to prove that they are going to "save" us from ourselves.

    Kind of like drilling a hole in the boat to let the water out.

    Up the Debt ceiling on it's own merits with no strings attached and then debate the real problem, spending.

    If they don't, Obama should up the debt ceiling himself per the 14th amendment. Then start cutting the $4 trillion that Boehner wanted to accept but was too scared of the Tea Party Loons.

    What a sad bunch!

  69. Let radical Republicans destroy the faith and credit of the nation. Nothing less will satisfy them.

  70. Yes, lets keep spending like the Liberals want too, that will surely save us all. There is a reason liberals are a minority per capita in this country...


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