Thursday, October 27, 2011

Guest Post from Mike Stegall: "Just the Facts, Ma'am"

Guest posts are welcome and encouraged. If you have something to say and are able to do it in a respectful, reasonable way, send your piece to darkejournal@gmail.comThe contents of guest posts do not necessarily reflect the opinions of DarkeJournal.com.


How many of us old timers remember the television show “Dragnet”?  Jack Webb, who produced the series and starred as Detective Joe Friday, would always ask a witness who started straying from his original question, “Just the facts, Ma’am”. Once again, we in the Greenville School District are being asked to support a school levy, and I have done some research and hope to give the people of the district “Just the facts, Ma’am”.

As I go about the district, it seems to me that the same questions concerning the school levy keep getting asked: (1) “I won’t vote for the levy because the school board is stupid” (2) “The money we spend is being wasted because the kids aren’t learning anything” and (3) “Teachers and Administrators make too much now, and the levy will give them a pay raise”. Let’s take them one at a time, without any emotion, and look at them logically. First, “the school board is stupid”. OK, I will admit that if you look at their track record, it does seem that their decisions sometimes appear less than smart. I have also heard this since I was in school, 40 years ago.  They do make mistakes, they are human. We all make them, it is just their mistakes are more public. Are they “stupid”? No.  Do they make bad decisions sometimes? Yes. They are asked to do a thankless job, for very little financial or personal gain. They try their best, but they need to step up and show some leadership. When you make a mistake, admit it, and go on and DON’T DO IT AGAIN!!  We do not expect perfection from them, just open honesty would do well. Don’t double talk, tell us what you mean and be done with it. For all the alleged mistakes they have made though, the quality of education in Greenville has not suffered, which brings me to number 2. “The kids aren’t learning anything” is just not true. Greenville just received an Excellent rating from the State Board of Education.  Now, you can argue that the State Board’s ratings are bogus, or whatever, but keep this in mind: ALL schools are rated based on the same criteria. If Greenville gets this rating based on that, then nobody has an argument against it. All schools are graded the same.  Greenville is excellent by the standard that everybody uses, so be happy about it. Don’t criticize the teachers, they have done their job. Now, they need to continue to be excellent. This is not a finish line for the school, just a beginning. I once heard that “Perfection may be unattainable, but Excellence can be achieved”. We have achieved it, now let’s improve on it. The rating is good news, which brings me to the real sticky issue, salaries. With some help from Carla Surber, and the State Board of Education, I have some numbers for you to contemplate. Are Greenville teachers well paid? Yes. Are they overpaid? Probably not. Here are the numbers, and keep in mind that the school is a business. We all want government to be run like a business, so we have to be competitive in salary to get the best and the brightest or they will go somewhere else, just like in business.  



According to the numbers, the average teacher salary in Greenville is $54,833.72. The average for districts our size is $53,300.51. The State average is $56,994.51. The fringe benefits as a percentage of operating expenditures is 21.68% compared to 21.56% for comparable districts and 21.23% statewide. Our benefit package for teachers is above average, so that is a big plus for teachers, and the district. REMEMBER, this is a business and in order to attract and keep good people, we need to be competitive. We’re not cheap, nor extravagant. As you can see, we are just slightly above average for our size, but below state average for all schools.  Our school district salaries as a percentage of operating expenses is 58.71% compared to 58.97% for districts our size and 57.47% statewide. We are in the ballpark, but not in the luxury seats! What these numbers tell me is that both sides of this issue need to quit pointing fingers at each other. Our teachers are not overpaid, but in a district where the average salary for non- teachers is $38, 565.00 (fiscal year 2008, last year data was available) our teachers are doing pretty well. Both sides need to quit complaining.  Now, for the real shocker, Administration salaries. For years, I have heard that we are top heavy and our Administrators make way too much. Keep in mind, this is a business, and if you want prime rib, you don’t pay hamburger prices.  Our Administrator’s average salaries are $70,879.75. Average salaries for schools our size is $74,117.43, and statewide they are $74,911.80. Our pupil/administrator ratio is 174.02 pupils per administrator, compared to 166.71 for districts comparable to ours, and 158.53 statewide. This means we are getting more Administration per pupil for less money! That’s the way it should be! That’s pretty good.  Are we paying too much in taxes? Yes we are! Are we paying too much in school taxes? No we’re not . Our total property tax per pupil is $3,346.35. Districts our size are paying $3,750.19 and statewide it’s $ 4,724.91. Our current operating millage, including the Joint Vocational School, is 35.31. Districts comparable to ours is 46.17, and statewide it is 47.91.

Thanks to Carla Surber for this information, and for her quick response to my questions.  What all of this means to me, if I may give you my personal opinion on the levy is this: Our School Board needs to “raise the bar” (their own words) and do much better. We expect the best from our students and our Administrators, it is not asking too much for the School Board to try and excel, too. We are getting a good education for the dollar but we need to improve where we can, and maintain excellence where we have it.  Our teachers and Administrators are well paid, with good benefits, but we are not extravagant with them. This is a business, the business of education, and we expect to get our money’s worth. Will a new school fix all the small problems we have? No. Will it enhance our chances for new business and further education for our children? Yes.  Prospective businesses come into town all the time unannounced, and drive around our communities to see what kind of place we have to live. If they see a place that is neat, clean, with good labor, resources, and good ,clean, modern schools for their children, we get a chance to land them here. Business owners want a good school system because this system is where their future workforce is coming from. They want educated , responsible people to employ and make their business grow. If these employers drive around and see run down, outdated schools, they see us as backward and uncaring about the future, and off they go.  It is just a fact that you get one chance to make a good impression, so let’s not blow it.  I have no children in the school system. I pay taxes just like you. I will vote for the levy because as a business man and a Commissioner, I see the positives for the county, city, and the future. You must decide for yourselves.

-Mike Stegall

28 comments:

  1. Mike since you're good with numbers could you see how many people that are on welfare in darke county that don't pay taxes it's really hard to swallow,when it seems like the city and county cater to people on welfare and all the sex-offenders that coming to our city !

    Thank you
    Craig Francis

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  2. Time to limit welfare to one year max. Once your year is up you are done for five years, then you can get one more year. If you can't feed yourself you need to move or starve. I am very tired of paying taxes to support lazy people.

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  3. And while you're at it, Mike, try to get a rough idea of how many business people in the towns and out on the landscape make very good money and pay little if any taxes. Only those who work at jobs that issue W-2 statements pay a fair share.

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  4. Hey Mike. If business owners pass us by for lack of new school buildings, how did you operate a successful business without new, shiny dumptrucks?

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  5. That average administrator salary figure obviously ignores the 15k worth of health insurance benefit, retirement benefit, and most importantly the retirement which is picked up by the school on administrations behalf. That average salary is roughly 30k higher than stated. Always important to include everything.

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  6. Thank you Rudy someone is paying attention.They will tell you anything to get this levy passed.They have plenty of money just look at the raises and beneifits that are being given.VOTE NO!!!!

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  7. Rudy, the average administration salary is just that, a salary. I gave you the benefits percentages in the story. When comparing salaries, you compare apples to apples. I would venture a guess that after all the information I went through from the State and from Mrs. Surber, that we are probably right where we should be in terms of benefits too.

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  8. It would be benficial to know the fringe benefit expenses for the number of administrators currently. Another nice tidbit would be a short list of current administrators and their salary. If you took the average I believe everyone will find that it is much higher than 70,879.75

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  9. To all you writing about welfare what does that have to do with our school. Also not all people on welfare are unemployed just under paid because we have no decent businesses to obtain decent pay. If you vote no on the school you are voting no on the future of Greenville. I fear with these attitudes Greenville will becoming the next Union City. If you are going to complain you could at least give your name. I will vote YES on the school because I care about my children and the future of this town and our country. Those who vote down school levies are what is wrong with the education system.

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  10. You are completely wrong.The waste is what kills the school levy. These government workers get the idea that we must support their lavish lifestyles.How many companies pay health and retirement for their managers. You have a elementary gym teacher as superintendant,who could not read a balance sheet making over 100,000 dollars. Get real VOTE NO on the new school.Also, tell the principal to get the heat fixed,they should have a maintenance person with some knowledge!!!

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  11. Most Of Your Welfare people in greenville rent , where is the money going to come from for the new school property taxes, You cant raise the rent on them to cover it ( WELFARE AND METROPOLITION HOUSING NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT VERY CAREFULY IN DARKE COUNTY IT WAS NOT MENT TO BE ON YOUR WHOLE LIFE )

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  12. How about most businesses with a Union pay their employees health and retirement. These teachers have spent along time and a lot of money on their educations and deserve to be paid for it. I agree they should not have lavish lifestyles, but the thing is teachers must continue taking classes and collage courses through their entire career. So when you figure in their costs they are not making as much as you would think. Not to mention all the time they spend outside of classroom time preparing lesson plans, test, activities, and grading papers.

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  13. Welfare has nothing to do with this subject. So talk about the issue at hand here. Are you distracting maybe because you have no valid point? The levy is for a new building so why does it matter what the Administrators and staff are making? Would you rather they just hire anyone who will take the lowest pay and more than likely not care about the students, budget of the schools ect.? If that is what you want then go ahead and take away all the things you are upset about, but I guarantee that the school will not be getting anymore Excellent ratings, and jobs will fly out of Greenville faster than you can blink. Then you can really grumble about all the people on welfare because it will be an even larger number.

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  14. First off Unions no longer have health and retirement paid in full. Those days are over ,but these school administrators are still trying to line their pockets at taxpayer expense.This is due in large part to your school board.The people on that board presently should be shown the door.When they are giving out pickups for all administrators and some classifieds,they obviously have plenty of money.30 millon a year to be exact.Do they offer to help parents by picking up fees for the students??? No, they kick money back to administration. VOTE NO

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  15. 1:10---the state of ohio is the main determing director as to where money is spent. The principal cannot just call an HVAC company to fix the heat. Have even thought about the cost of new heating for any school in the town? If you hate the school then hate away, but it and the rest of the city services are the foundation that our town is built upon. I am sorry that life has been hard for you, but think of the big picture not just your snapshot. The benefits paid to our administration in low when compared to other districts in the GWOC.

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  16. I dont know where you come up with this stuff,but let me tell you that the state gives money every year to upgrade and repair these buildings.This school remodeled the high school gym with the share that was for the other buildings.If you will go to buckeye institute .org you can compare the salaries of other systems throughout the state.
    The heating problem at woodland could be fixed if the school had someone on board that had a brain.This mindset that we need to throw money at it is absurd.If they hired the best that they could get for the money, this would be a much better school system.They instead hire people that help the board and others with their own agendas.It is time for a change VOTE NO!!!

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  17. If you have lived any place other than Greenville you would know that taxes are very very low here compared to other cities. And people on welfare have nothing to do with this. And if you have ever attended college you would know its not cheap, so teachers should be paid like any other professional. And if you think that having school that are falling down doesn't have an impact on business coming to an area, you're ignorant. Some of the text books that the schools use are more than 15 years old, and if you think that doesn't matter your ignorant too/still. Having benefits is something everyone should have but if you don't get a college education so you can have them. The principle most likely does not have the ability to "get the heat fixed". (do you even know what a principle does?). And really, did Craig Francis sign his name to that comment? wow

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  18. I know the difference between principle and principal.

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  19. The taxpayers who pay the Permanent Improvement Levy taxes is where the money from improvements comes from. Not the state. So where do you get your information from? I do not agree with the Gym remodel, but it is done and we can't change that. There were more important things that thee money could have gone for. Bottom line is we need new buildings, the existing ones are too run down. Class rooms are so small that students are in what I would call mobile homes to make enough room for all the students. If the buildings are not big enough to fit all of the students I see that as a MAJOR problem. They were not meant as a permanent solution.

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  20. Your right Amy, the mobile class rooms were not ment to be permanent. Its all part of the master plan. Get rid of 2 good schools, cram the kids together and press and pressure the tax payers to build new. Was this a way to show " it's for our children"? No, it is a way to show how much more need to build new. All at the same time more pickups and admin. raises continue. Again "it's for our children"
    As for the gym, the high school will not be replaced so I'm all for keeping it up.

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  21. from reading all the post's from all the related subjects of this school system, if a new school building is to be supported by most tax payers we need to do the following first, in this order.
    Replace all school board members
    They take the advise of the superintendent.
    So we need to replace that position also.
    Replace the director of administration, who carries out the dirty work for the superintendent. Then do away with a few high end administators, so that will drive the costs down and save aditional jobs on the low end. At this point with new leaders in charge they will see we expect our dollars spent wisly. Then we will have more people interested in a new school because trust will again be restored.

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  22. I think fiscal responsibility is not to much to ask... It doesnt take a genius to see this school system is just a big rip off,taking place under the banner, its for the children.You look at how many retire and come running back.That alone speaks volumes!!!

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  23. Who retires and comes back? The number can't be very high.

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  24. I would bet a steak dinner that the Greenville City School system is one the largest multimillion businesses in Darke County and in Greenville. I have come to believe that some of you think you can run this thing with pennies on the dollar.

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  25. Here's another possibility of why they closed/sold 2 buildings and purchased modular classrooms 4 years ago: It was costing too much money to continue owning/operating so many buildings. The BOE was being fiscally responsible, wisely using the tax dollars they were given. So many accuse them of spending too much, but it appears to me they were doing what they needed to do to live within their budget.

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  26. Fiscally responsible right!!!They only know one thing their own agenda,my kid first string,your kid I dont care.

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  27. I think the main reason for closing Gettesburg was to receive reduced or free bussing from the state/gov., through tax money. North had some issues they did not wont to fix even though they had the money to up grade. It all makes sense to cram the kids and pressure the community to build and spend all the extra money on pickups,raises and deside who gets the next job before the interviewing starts. But thats not all desided from the board. They take there recomendations from the superentendent and director of admin., services. Thats what I think.

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  28. 8:14-- I personally disagree with what you said. the schools were unneeded due to reduced enrollment and cost savings of redistricting. If you do not like the super. then pressure the board members with petitions etc.

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