The League of Women Voters of Darke County is holding a public forum featuring State Representative Jim Buchy and County Engineer Jim Surber. As the two men debate their opposing views on Senate Bill 5, which will be Issue 2 on the November ballot, they will be supported by representatives of “Building a Better Ohio” and “We are Ohio.” Open to the public, the forum will be held at 7 p.m.Wednesday, October 19, at the American Legion Hall in Greenville.
Senate Bill 5, which passed the Ohio Senate with a 17 to16 vote, was signed into law by Governor Kasich in March. Since then, the controversial bill has brought forth state-wide contention, with heated arguments both for and against it.
The main points of contention are its impact on the collective bargaining rights of teachers, police officers, fire fighters, and other public workers. There is also contention involving the law’s impact on benefits, health care costs, and the merit system for pay increases.
Because of the controversy surrounding it, over one million Ohio residents signed petitions against the law, getting it on the ballot for referendum in November. A referendum is known as a veto vote, which gives Ohio citizens the constitutional right to protest and overturn a government passed law.
When voters go to the polls in November, they can vote “YES” on Issue 2 to retain the law as signed, or vote “NO” to repeal it. Whether Issue 2 stands or falls is up to Ohio voters.
Finally there is a forum that will have give and take. Mr. buchy you cannot hide behind pre-submitted questions and misleading comments on local TV.
ReplyDeleteMr Buchy--do you agree with Governor Kasich that if SB 5 is defeated that he, with your support, will show the meat of the bill through on other bills and legislation. Is this the sausage you always refer to?
ReplyDeleteEvery time I talked to Mr. Buchy about SB 5 his reply was "they are lying to you", but, he could (or would) not say exactly who was lying to me about it.
ReplyDeleteThat was his response to every inquiry.
I look forward to hopefully getting an answer from him.
I seriously doubt that most of the people who routinely complain about Mr. Buchy will actually show up to this forum. They don't seem much like the type to actually get involved in a productive way -- more like the type who do nothing but complain from the safety of their computer, cloaked in anonymity. Chickens....
ReplyDeleteSuzy: you are incorrect in your assumption. I am involved and active. I believe that Mr. Buchy, whom i use to admire, is wrong about SB5. I think that he is not fairly representing the people of his district and it must be pointed out.
ReplyDeleteWhat makes me laugh is the people who get on here and gripe about how ticked cops, firefighters, and teachers are about SB5. Their positions are LAUGHABLE! Yes, LAUGHABLE! It is WITHOUT DEBATE that SB5 gives school districts, cities, the state, etc. etc. etc. better financial flexibility. I haven't met ONE state employee who has been able to talk anything about SB5 other than they don't like it for reasons OTHER than those which are selfish. I almost wet myself laughing when a co-worker complained about SB5 and how their kid was struggling trying to find a job in teaching because of it! Really? You mean the fact that school districts have a greater financial flexibility under SB5 to control costs and can hire more teachers because of it is hurting your child? REALLY? Their response was "Well, teachers jobs are hard because of terrible parents and unruly kids!" Well, that may be, but that has nothing to do with SB5/Issue 2. When the "disagreement" ended, the parent had pretty much come to the realization that their kid has a better shot one year out of college to get a job as a teacher with SB5 still in existence.
ReplyDeleteDo the math people! Don't sit there and listen to what your local union is telling you! Unions nearly destroyed the auto industry and they are the anchor in the state of Ohio! Don't listen to some stupid ad on TV! Don't listen to some BS spewed to you by a public employee who is upset over SB5 requiring them to be judged on capabilities instead of a guaranteed raise. You want the facts? Read the bill! You do that and you'll realize that SB5 is a God-send for the state of Ohio!
Oh...and the freakin' Cleveland Plain Dealer even endorsed SB5. If that doesn't tell you that this isn't a Republican/Democrat issue, you probably wouldn't pass any intelligence test if it were issued in order for you to be allowed to vote!
Game - Set - Match. Keep SB5 in Ohio! Vote yes on Issue 2!
As a former teacher, I will be voting YES on issue 2. The issue is a good idea in the long run, and to me collective bargining is selfish and needs to be controlled. When your salary comes from the tax payers, in my opinion, it is just plain wrong to "demand" more, more and more (which always seemed to be the norm in contract talks when I was teaching), and then threaten to strike.
ReplyDeleteTo those of you who slam educators..... remember not all of us, current or former, want to see issue 2 defeated. Vote YES-the end result will be positive in the future.
Game, set, match. SB5 diminishes the ability for local schools. and other services to have a say in determining best practices in their fields. Your sceneraio of needing and hiring more teachers is off the mark. Boards will have fewer teachers, firefighters, and police do more with larger classes and fewer first responders. governor Kasich is misleading Ohio with claims on TV that he only want us to pay our share of 10% of retirement and 15% of health care. It has been shown that 97% of public employees already pay these amounts. So what is his real plan? Have you read SB5. I have, and it contains a great deal more than the simplistic overview that you present. The game is still on. Vote NO on SB5.
ReplyDeleteRight on!!! 9:16pm
ReplyDeleteI agree 100% with you! Good job!
Game - Set - Match? What game are you watching?
ReplyDeleteSB5 is, and always has been, not about money. It is an attempt to decrease the political influence of unions who traditionally support and vote democrat.
Go online to www.careers.ohio.gov and you will see the pay scale for state of Ohio jobs. You will find (if you have any decent knowledge of the private sector) that the pay for these state jobs is well under comparable private sector jobs.
And yes, under SB5 new teachers fresh out of college can find jobs easier because getting rid of the unions allows for getting rid of experienced professionals with little cause, especially if they are perceived to make too much money. These public employees will be at the mercy of any looney Tea Bagger who gets elected with the sole purpose of hacking costs at any price.
When my house is on fire, someone is breaking into my house or my child is struggling in school, I will gladly pay my taxes to insure that I get the help I need.
Sure we are in a bad economic picture right now, but lets keep in mind who got us in this total picture, the politicians who are now asking you to blame the public servants due to their own pee-poor management and spending over the years.
Vote no on Issue 2 and tell the politicians to do their jobs and quit blaming others for their lack of insight and planning.
I hope we see layoffs of teachers and all other public employees. Make it hurt!
ReplyDelete10:28 AM--- Wow, you are direct and to the point. I hope all of your goodwill comes back to you.
ReplyDeleteto 10:28
ReplyDeleteHow was the pork and the baloney last night??
Ahhhh.... elections draw near. Read all the hate and stupidity from both sides of every issue and race. No wonder this country and state are in the shape they are in!
ReplyDelete@ 4:01 PM
ReplyDeleteRight on!
In am not in for or against SB5/Issue 2, but were the politicians made a mistake is requiring every employee to pay 15% of Healthcare. Most already do. They should have stipulated what actual plans could look like. People are still getting 100% coinsurance plans. Those same people are already paying 85% of the premium, so there will be no effect and no cost savings. However if the maximum coinsurance was 90-10 split or 80-20 split, then there could be actual savings. I will have to say I was in favor of SB5, however when the state exempted themselves, that made me think is this really right. How do you come up with legislation and then exempt yourself. That is not right.
ReplyDelete4:01 PM--let me guess....you are a psuedo-intellectual who looks down on the rest of us and just laughs. The country is in the shape it is because you are too good for the rest of us.
ReplyDeleteDear Psuedo-intellectual; I need your guidance and/or advice. I was thinking of voting no on 5, and then yes and then maybe I will stay home and let you vote for me. What path do you recommend?
ReplyDeleteGame - Set - Match:
ReplyDeleteRIGHT ON! 100% ACCURATE! Another newspaper came out today and encouraged people to Vote FOR Issue 2! It is obviously the smartest decision for every Ohioan and Darke County resident to make! Don't prove to be a bunch of idiots Darke County and Ohio - VOTE YES ON ISSUE 2!
Everyone at my job (private worker) had to take a 10% cut in pay, pay DOUBLE into our health care, have our matching 401K contributions eliminated, and the dental plan no longer paid for by the employer just so nobody would lose a job! Meanwhile, I have to read and hear the petty, greedy garbage coming from public employees whining about not getting their raises the last couple of years. Well, cry me a freakin' river! After all was said and done, I sacrificed probably close to 20% of my pay so everyone at my job COULD KEEP A JOB! Yet I have to listen to public employees cry about how they haven't gotten a raise and how they'll have to pay more into pensions, healthcare, whatever. Issue 2 is about setting the state into a similar position as a private employer - when the economy goes South, the state needs to have the ability to save jobs by not being hog-tied with mandatory wage increases and the like. It is only common sense! Even public workers can see that, but their greed and the "wearing of the blinders" cuts through logic and brings about their fake tears. Boo-freakin'-hoo!
The Cleveland Plain Dealer, one of the state's more liberal papers, said to VOTE YES ON ISSUE 2! The Columbus Dispatch, probably Ohio's most respected newspaper, said to VOTE YES ON ISSUE 2!
Pretty obvious what every Ohioan should be voting - VOTE YES ON ISSUE 2!
9:34 a.m.:
ReplyDeleteSo you say SB5 is simply about unions and decreasing their voting power? Well, would you be here griping if SB5 INCREASED union power and made it more DIFFICULT on the state to operate within the confines of a budget? Of course not! Your post was self-contradictory! In one paragraph you say it isn't about money, yet in another you talk about how SB5 gives a member of the Tea Party (I won't use your DISGUSTING, DEPLORABLE, INSENSITIVE, gay slur as I am not a low-class hate-monger like you, you pathetic slime! Go back to your hole and rot!). The depths some people think to when greed and hatred cloud their judgment!
And your final two paragraphs show your true colors as a mind-numbing member of the intellectually ill-equipped. You want to blame politicians for poor planning because of poor management of state union contracts? Funny how you are more than happy to "reap the benefits" of that "poor planning," so it is pretty clear as to why you want issue 2 to fail - your own greed and desire to force future "poor planning and insight" because of the state giving into the demands of the greedy, heartless unions and wanting to keep their children educated and their residents safe.
It is sad to think that you are somewhere out in society in contact with human beings. May God bless us all by allowing you to get a new job as a mime in the Mojave Dessert so that you may be as far away from humanity as possible and, in the event you come upon any people, you can't curse them by making them listen to you.
VOTE YES ON ISSUE 2!
To 10:45 pm, do you have to buy a license to work that cost hundreds of dollars? do you have to pay out of your own paycheck items you need for the classroom in order to do your job efficiently? Do you have to continue to take college classes and pay for them too while you are employed as an educator? I am currently collecting pop cans so our classroom will have money for classroom activities. I would do anything for my students because I love my job. What I don't love is people in Columbus saying how we are not contributing our fair share and we are part of the reason the state is in a mess. If issue 2 passes, you will see more of a mess with our public schools. And I have do doubt that the governor will go after another group or institution for additional monies and blame them for the latest problems.
ReplyDelete10:45 PM - Your business has obviously suffered in the recent economic times. However, if your only reason for supporting Issue 2 is to make public employees suffer as much as you have, your reasoning is not based on anything positive. You complain about the public workers and talk about their "greedy garbage" in the form of whining and then you proceed to whine about how tough you have had it in your business and all that you have had to give up.
ReplyDeleteIssue 2 is, and always has been, about politics. The elected officials that support this issue now throw around all kinds of misinformation, making people think that public employees pay nothing for their healthcare and dictate all matters related to their employment. This is not the case with the majority of public workers and if you believe otherwise you are grossly misinformed. Talk to some public workers and find out just what they do pay and what their work consists of. Or would finding that out somehow lessen your "get even" attitude for what has happened in your own business.
Vote No on Issue 2.
10:59 - You really need to get a grip before your head explodes.
ReplyDeleteSB5 is politically motivated, nothing more. You assume that I am a public employee, and "reap the benefits". Sorry to burst your bubble but I am not. Whether or not Issue 2 passes or fails won't affect me directly. I have not nor will I "reap the benefits" of this issue no matter what is decided.
To say that our politicians (on both sides of the aisle, by the way) have not poorly planned and overspent money in the past is a sign that you have no concept about what has been happening in Columbus and DC.
Further, you get mad at the term used by many concerning the Tea Party loonies so you prove your superiority by using terms like "low-class hate mongerer" and "pathetic slime". Then you lump all the folks in unions as "greedy" and "heartless" Boy, you surely made your point.
Please educate yourselves to both sides of this issue before speaking out in pathetic language. If you support Issue 2 that is fine. But don't berate others for your baseless assumptions.
10:59 PM - Perhaps it was past your bedtime. Either that or you need some serious help to avoid future rants.
ReplyDeleteSB5 is, and always has been about politics. If you don't see it that way, that's ok. And if you want to support it, that's ok too. But your derogatory remarks are out of bounds and make you look like a fool, especially when you berate someone for using a term that is quite common these days and do so by using your own string of nasty comments. You only proved you are who you are.
Teachers are NOT the problem, the politicians are the problem. Let's see the politicians reduce their salaries and fall in line with the rest of their constituent's financial situation.
ReplyDeleteThis is more like what the teachers are facing:
Teachers' hefty salaries are driving up taxes, and they only work 9 or 10 months a year! It's time we put things in perspective and pay them for what they do - babysit! We can get that for minimum wage. That's right. Let's give them $3.00 an hour and only the hours they worked; not any of that silly planning time, or any time they spend before or after school. That would be $19.50 a day (7:45 to 3:00 PM with 45 min. off for lunch and planning time-- that equals 6 1/2 hours). Each parent should pay $19.50 a day for these teachers to babysit their children. Now how many students do they teach in a day...maybe 30? So that's $19.50 x 30 = $585.00 a day. However, remember they only work 180 days a year!!! I am not going to pay them for any vacations. LET'S SEE.... That's $585 X 180= $105,300 per year. (Hold on! My calculator needs new batteries).What about those special education teachers and the ones with Master's degrees? Well, we could pay them minimum wage ($7.75) and just to be fair, round it off to $8.00 an hour. That would be $8 X 6 1/2 hours X 30 children X 180 days = $280,800 per year. Wait a minute --there's something wrong here! There sure is! The average teacher's salary (nation wide) is $50,000. $50,000/180 days = $277.77/per day/30 students=$9.25/6.5 hours = $1.42 per hour per student--a very inexpensive baby-sitter and they even EDUCATE your kids!) WHAT A DEAL!!!! Make a teacher smile; re-post this to show appreciation for all educators!
Saw this in a Letter to the Editor in a local paper and find it sums things up pretty good:
ReplyDeleteTo the Editor:
Remember when teachers, policemen, firemen, nurses and public workers crashed the stock market, wiped out half of our 401K's, took trillions in taxpayer funded bailouts, spilled oil in the Gulf of Mexico, gave themselves billions in bonuses and paid no taxes?
Yeah, me neither ...
Vote NO on Issue 2!
To both 2:31 pm and 5:08 pm well said and well done. I work in the educational field and I couldn't have said it better! Oh the downs syndrome student in our class finally learned to write his last name. The teacher has been working with him for 3 yrs. He is 16 yrs old. He wrote it 5 times on the board yesterday and we all clapped and he turned around and had the biggest smile. That moment will forever be embedded in my mind. That's why I love my job even tho I only make 32,000 a yr.!
ReplyDeleteLife don't look fair when I work in an establishment full of union people getting a better deal and perks I don't get as a non union person.They pay less for benifitts, get more days off and more attention when they complain. They get a better retirement also.
ReplyDeleteThere should be a better balance both union and non union people working for the same thing. I don't think tax payers should have to pay for enormous union deals. The other thing I don't like is the idea the state house cut them selfs out of this bill to alou them selfs to continue to have and do for them selfs as they wish. As a teacher I'd vote no,in my case I'd vote yes, as a state rep I'd wont it to pass so I would gain more in my pocket. There all looking out for them selfs as well as every one else.
My prediction:
ReplyDeleteIssue 2 will be widely voted "Yes" in Darke County. In the rest of the state, who knows...but here it will pass. Why? The same ten people are screaming from the rooftops, but they are a very small percentage of the DC population, and even fewer actually do more tahn complain on sites like this -- even fewer will attend tonight -- and even fewer have or will read the bill. (Yawn)
Buchy will win the "debate," hands down.
I WORKED FOR A LOCAL GOVT. AND BELONGED TO A UNION. HATED PAYING THE FEES BUT I SAT ACROSS THE TABLE FROM THEM AT CONTRACT TIME. IF THE MONEY WAS NOT THERE THEY SHOULD NOT HAVE OFFERED.NOW RETIRED I DONT MAKE ANYTHING NEAR WHAT EVERYBODY THINKS. NEED ANOYHER JOB, WATCH OUT YES VOTERS
ReplyDeleteI like how "union" workers are compared to everyone else. Please... I understand many union workers make more money. I also spent 5 years in college earning a degree, while Johnny McDropout works flipping burgers. He deserves to make less than me. How about you compare my salary to others with a similar education. I bet you retardedly low salary they make way more money than me.
ReplyDeletePredictions:
ReplyDeleteIssue 2 is voted down by something like a 60 - 40 margin.
Ohio General Assembly introduces and passes legislation in pieces similar to SB5 in order to make up for the budget hole all of the sudden voted into effect by Ohio voters. Cops and firefighters are exempted this time around. Teachers go nuts and get it on the ballot again in 2012, but this time it passes and teachers complain.
Common Sense:
Ohio voters get a clue and VOTE YES ON ISSUE 2!
Ohio voters "get it". They see this as a foolish attempt to divert the attention away from the real debt culprits, the politicians. And it helps the Repubs by getting rid of union influence. Issue 2 will be defeated because it is flawed and based on false information. Even the Gov knows it. That's why he's backpedaling.
ReplyDeleteVote No on Issue 2 and tell the politicians to do their job. No more excuses!
If this is so terrible, why are things doing so much better with the state and the financial situation since SB5 has been passed and implemented already?
ReplyDelete2 + 2 = 4, right? Yup! Still right! So what does this all mean? Not a hard one here!
VOTE YES ON ISSUE 2!
My favorite is watching all of the "no" voters struggle mightily for justification that isn't just petty whining. Thus far, I haven't seen it!
ReplyDeleteSilence the whines!
VOTE YES ON ISSUE 2!
That's funny, all I hear from "no" voters are issues about public safety, small class sizes, fair treatment and not blaming public employees for the bad decisions of politicians. Nothing about that sounds "whiney". What I hear from the "yes" votes is misinformation, backpeddling and a "I don't have it so they shouldn't be getting it" attitude.
ReplyDeleteFunny how these same Tea Partiers tell us to get government out of the way but they are fine with Kasich and company (politicians) invoking their mandates. And if they lose, they threaten to invoke the same thing in smaller parts. So much for listening to the voice of the people.
Vote No on Issue 2
"If this is so terrible, why are things doing so much better with the state and the financial situation since SB5 has been passed and implemented already?"
ReplyDeleteI hope that you realize that the bill doesn't affect a union contract until it is open for negotiation, very few so far have been open.
SB5 has nothing to do with the States current "financial situation".
Good grief the "YES" voters seem horribly uneducated or misinformed about this whole issue.
To 5:48, have you ever talked to a truck driver? Look at the cost of his license, permits, fuel, road tax, tires, insurance, etc.. We need trucks not more taxes
ReplyDeleteIf the State has a balanced budget without SB 5 having much if any effect then why is it really needed?
ReplyDelete